Finasteride causing irreversible impotence!?

[Quantum Cat]

whenever I mention to someone that I take Finasteride they tell me to get off it immediately, as there are new studies that show it can cause irreversable side effects such as total impotence. :crazy:

I've also seen stories in the media about it. I know there are some scaremongering people out there but I wonder how much truth there is to these stories?

Has this happened to anyone on this forum?

 

[wstef]

It has been reported that a side effects can continue after stopping treatment and Merck were forced to include this in their leaflets.

I genuinely believe the 2% side effects is nonsense. I believe it's much more than that. However, you will rarely hear people register for forums like this to say "no side effects, just thought I'd tell you". People will only be vocal about it if there is a problem which is why you hear a lot about it online. Who is going to take to their friends about a limp dick?

The stories I read in the media are usually the same stories repeated. The Examiner (not sure where this is from?) seems to be completely anti-Propecia, but other places (such as some British newspapers) seem to recommend it.

It's a horrible world... we don't know if political or financial reasoning are behind the good and bad reporting for the drug.

Much as is said about Propecia, if you search for side effects for many drugs you'll find loads about it; especially only.

I have one continuing side effect, which is numbness downstairs. I am fed up of it now and have reduced my Propecia to half a tablet each day to see if it helps. If I don't get much improvement I will eventually stop taking the drug. It's not worth the worry. It's all I think about!

 

[Quantum Cat]

I've been on it for a few years and fortunately haven't had impotence - my worry is that this might kick in when and if I stop taking finasteride.

sides I've noticed include watery semen, some pain when ejaculating and possibly lower libido - it's hard to tell with that because other factors could be in play

 

[Admin]

Most of the people running ads are Attorneys .... aka vultures .... trying to make a buck off this stuff. The simple fact is, nobody .... and i mean NOBODY ... has ever taken Propecia (as far as I am aware in 13 years running this site) for a week, or a month.... had side effects .... discontinued treatment immediately when side effects began .... and was still forever laden with said side effects.

The people who have the problem (and are screaming the loudest) are the ones who took the drug, *ignored the side effects* out of a fear that they would go bald without Propecia, and *continued* taking it despite these side effects. For days, weeks, months, even years. Those are the people who may have ongoing problems afterwards, and even among them, i would say it is a very small fraction.

In such cases I have very little support for such individuals who are then trying to sue Merck, because I believe what they are doing is unethical and dishonest. Trying to blame someone else for a decision they made. And I can comment like this because I was one of those people. I had side effects, very bad ones - more than most anyone I know ... and I ignored them for nearly 2.5 years because of fear of losing my hair. If I walked away from that situation with permanent changes, the only one I would have to blame is myself. But then again, I think differently than many people.

That being said, there is absolutely no reason to believe that impotence will "kick in" once you *stop* the treatment. On the contrary, you will likely have a surge in DHT production, which will make you feel like a raging teenager for awhile, followed by an equilibrium and normalcy into the future. Certain things have stayed with me after stopping Propecia, but they were things I experienced while on it. And only 1 or 2 of the 5 or 10 things. Impotence was not one of them.

Because of this nonsense flying around I personally have had discussions with friends who want to take it, but are now terrified that if they pop a pill, they will have limp dick for eternity. That's how this nonsense information gets twisted. I try to explain to them that the vast majority of people have zero problems on Propecia, and those who do should simply stop taking it, for full recovery. Its not like you wake up one morning and you're impotent forever. Notice a problem? Stop taking it the next day. Problem solved. That's your responsibility. Keep taking it? Its your own fault. If everyone did that, nobody would be threatening to sue anyone right now.

If you take v**** and it turns your eyesight blue (documented side effect), and you continue taking it with blue vision for a year .... are you really gonna go sue Pfizer if your vision doesn't return to normal? I mean seriously ...

Admin

 

[Quantum Cat]

a reassuring post Admin - thanks. I think those suing Merck are probably trying to make a quick buck. It's selfish because if they succeed and Finasteride is outlawed for hairloss, then a lot of guys who do get benefit from it will suffer. I'm sorry to hear you were one who got bad sides from it. I trust your opinion and experience far more than the lawyers or journalists who probably know little about finasteride

I know one guy who took it for a few years and it atrophied his prostate according to his doctor. When he stopped, the prostate got back to normal

 

[Admin]

Atrophied. Strange term. Implies degeneration of some sort. I know Propecia helps induce a smaller prostate and lower PSA. But have not heard about it causing "Atrophy" .... as Atrophy means actual loss of tissue. Not just size change that can rebound.

 

[kumar75]

Hello people,

It would be great if you can answer this question of mine ( might sound dumb, but still).
How in the first place will you know that you are experiencing sides. ?
1) Low libido
2) Testicular pain
3) Low performance?..

I had slight penis pain 1 week ago, but no longer do. But my problem is i have never had sex before and so i do not know if it has decreased my performance etc. So is there a way to know if we are having sides if we are not having sex?

thanks

 

[Wuffer]

You simply can't listen to what the media tells you. Almost all of the stories perpetuated from the media are marred with inaccuracies. They simply only tell one extremely narrow view of the story, which is held up by a couple poorly conducted studies. The only published evidence we currently have that supports the position of persistent symptoms consists of telephone interviews with people experiencing these persistent symptoms. None of the men even underwent a physical examination, or from as much as I can ascertain, even met with the researchers in person. The people with these symptoms are EXTREMELY persistent in pushing their cause. They are now associated with dozens of lawfirms, which shows there is a financial motivation.

The fact of the matter is that there is a ridiculous amount of research done on the drug, totaling over 27 MILLION patient-years. From my understanding, not a single controlled study has shown anyone ending up with such persistent symptoms. There was a placebo controlled trial done on 20,000 men, half of which took the drug for 7 years, with annual check-up's. Nowhere in that paper did it mention anyone had these persistent long-lasting sexual symptoms. A recent study conducted in Japan showed side effect rates in over 3000 men was less than 1%, and still no persistent symptoms mentioned.

The media never tells you about these studies, because they want to make interesting, shocking news. Their stories are based on studies comprising of phone interviews with less than 100 men. Same with the whole aspartame debate. Despite the fact that there are literally thousands of studies showing it is safe, everyone only focuses on the one small, poorly conducted study that shows it can cause cancer. This study has been debunked by every legitimate food safety agency, yet everyone is still convinced it's true, and that there must be some government conspiracy covering up the truth.

All this being said, there is probably some level of truth to these symptoms, and Admin summarizes what is probably going on. Some people (around 2%) will not tolerate the drug. If you stop taking it, you will go back to normal in a short time. If you continue to take the drug in spite of your symptoms, you may be setting yourself up for long term problems. People have claimed they had permanent symptoms from taking one pill, and felt the symptoms within minutes of taking their first dose. Total BS, IMO.

You take on some level of risk when taking any prescription medication. Pretty much any prescription med has the potential to mess you up bad. But the only reason these medications were approved by the FDA (don't forget, finasteride was approved TWICE, once for Proscar and once for Propecia) is that they were shown to be safe beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Fanjeera]

Atrophied. Strange term. Implies degeneration of some sort. I know Propecia helps induce a smaller prostate and lower PSA. But have not heard about it causing "Atrophy" .... as Atrophy means actual loss of tissue. Not just size change that can rebound.

That means cell death and shrinkage, but usually reverses, when the causing agent is removed. Like a muscle becomes small, if you don't use it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22375859
http://www.asiaandro.com/archive/1008-682X/5/33.htm
These are the most concerning studies for me. Fibrosis is a serious problem and real proof that there is a problem. Yes, there are many reports of erectyle dysfunction, but they're all measured with a questionnaire only. Any ideas how to test the same thing in humans as they did on rats?
Search for studies and don't read the newspapers!

 

[Quantum Cat]

it may have been the tubes that connect the prosate to the testes, or to the penis, that had atrophied. I'll try and find out.

For those who have been on finasteride for a few years it might be worth getting a doctor to check out if your prostate is working normally - even if that involves a finger up the butt.

 

[RebelHair]

I was taking it for a couple of years and Yes i started experiencing these symptoms to an increasing degree.
The major issue for me was depression, and also lesser sexual functions

 

[Timi]

i am stopped Finasterid for 17Month
and my Penis-acorn-testicles-Prostata burns without end
all is red and hot
no Bacteriell !

i have no hope that it get better

 

[Quantum Cat]

just out of interest I recently picked up a new batch of finasteride 5mg and this is what it says on the info leaflet:

the most common side effects are impotence and decreased sexual drive. These effects normally occur at the start of the treatment but do not usually last long in the majority of patients if treatment continues.

Common: decreased volume of ejaculate, impotence, decreased libido
Uncommon: ejaculation disorder, breast tenderness, breast enlargement
Unknown: testicular pain
Very rare: breast secretion

bear in mind that this is not from Merck, the manufacturers of Propecia, but a generic manufacturer. Also it refers to men who take finasteride for BPH (usually 5mg per day). So I think that's quite reassuring and worth remembering when you encounter horror stories on the internet.

 

[Fanjeera]

The fact that you don't notice anything doesn't mean that you actually don't have side effects. Finasteride atrophies the seminal vesicles, the prostate and the penis (and who knows what else: every tissue and cell (there are many) that has 5ar2 or 5ar3 is prone to damage), so everyone 100% has side effects to some degree.

 

[Quantum Cat]

while I agree with you that finasteride may have less-noticable subtle effects like decreased libido... atrophying the penis? come on. I'm pretty sure my penis hasn't shrunk since I've been taking it

 

[Fanjeera]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22375859
http://www.asiaandro.com/archive/1008-682X/5/33.htm
You may not see a change in size, but in weight.

 

[boobyinspector]

There's no such thing as irreversible impotence unless you have some sort of physical problem that may cause it. It's all in your head... literally. You take something like Selegiline and you will get your libido/erections back. Granted you may have to take it for a year or so to upregulate receptors. Sexual function is closely related to dopamine in the CNS. The weird part is that finasteride does cause depression in some people so it may be impacting their neurotransmitter levels which can also ruin their sex drive. And the lowered weight in your penis is simply a product of lowered nitric oxide blood supply. The penis is cartilage and does not shrink much like your ear lobes don't shrink. And this lowered NO/blood flow only happens in certain people, so bad luck to them.

 

[Quantum Cat]

the whole point of Finasteride originally was to treat men with enlarged prostates, so it probably will shrink your prostate and the seminal vessels, but the question is to what extent? It probably varies between men. Might be a good idea to get your prostate checked out by a doctor every once in a while, while on finasteride

 

[Silverfox1]

Do you think that the prostate shrinking is what causes the testicle pain? Ive had testicle pain everday for the 3 months ive been on it. Its not painful as such but you know its there. Does this fade?

 

[Fanjeera]

There's no such thing as irreversible impotence unless you have some sort of physical problem that may cause it. It's all in your head... literally. You take something like Selegiline and you will get your libido/erections back. Granted you may have to take it for a year or so to upregulate receptors. Sexual function is closely related to dopamine in the CNS. The weird part is that finasteride does cause depression in some people so it may be impacting their neurotransmitter levels which can also ruin their sex drive. And the lowered weight in your penis is simply a product of lowered nitric oxide blood supply. The penis is cartilage and does not shrink much like your ear lobes don't shrink. And this lowered NO/blood flow only happens in certain people, so bad luck to them.

Did you read the studies I posted? There's proof that the tissue loses weight and fibroses. Is that reverrsible? Probably not.
I'm not talking about total impotency. Even castrates are able to have sex, but it's just not as easy to achieve an erection, because there's a lot fibrosis in the penis (yes, there are other CNS mediated reasons too, of course, but I don't think these are of importance with finasteride). Just like for finasteride users. And that's frustrating: you're not at 100% health anymore after taking the pill. Do you know what atherosclerosis is? It's very similar, because the penis is much like vascular tissue. People live with atherosclerosis and don't actually feel it, because it's so gradual, but they actually get noticable complications (hypertension, infarctions, ischemias, thrombembols, brain hematoma, gangrenes and much more) and may die.

the whole point of Finasteride originally was to treat men with enlarged prostates, so it probably will shrink your prostate and the seminal vessels, but the question is to what extent? It probably varies between men. Might be a good idea to get your prostate checked out by a doctor every once in a while, while on finasteride

Have you not read the studies at all? Finasteride shrinks the prostate like 25-30% in humans. This fact has been repeated over and over. There are no studies measuring seminal vesicles, but it has been shown on rats that they shrink too. Is it reversible? Yes, the organs gain back their weight and volume, but for some reason I and many others still have changes in semen texture after taking this drug.

Do you think that the prostate shrinking is what causes the testicle pain? Ive had testicle pain everday for the 3 months ive been on it. Its not painful as such but you know its there. Does this fade?

I've got no ideas, why this happens. It isn't anything very serious, though, I think, because no real testicle pathology have yet been associated with finasteride. Perhaps epididymis shrinkage? Perhaps the rise in estradiol just makes the testicles to shout out that high female hormone levels are not normal in a male?