Follica Microneedling Protocol Patent Disclosed

[coolio]

These baldness forums are a few thousand steady people. If Follica is relying on that number then they don't have a commercially viable product. Cosmetic treatments rely on a wide market.

They rely on a long-term market too. Thousands more boys are born every day. Baldness won't be any less common in the next generation just because our generation gets treatment.

 

[baldlygoing]

When it comes to any kind of beauty/rejuvenating procedure, if there is a way of taking it to extremes then it's been done before. Guaranteed. There are millions of people out there who would sell their souls to look a year younger.

Microneedling is superficial skin damage, like dermabrasion and microdermabrasion. It's not exactly the same procedure but I see no reason to think the damage from microneedling would be worse.

It's new to us. It's not new to the entire human race.

I've actually been needling my face for about 6 years so when I question the safety I'm not one of these doom and gloom trolls, I genuinely want to make sure I'm not risking further damage and asking for feedback from people much more in the know than I am.

I wish back then I would've thought to do it on my head not just my face.

 

[Trichosan]

I've actually been needling my face for about 6 years so when I question the safety I'm not one of these doom and gloom trolls, I genuinely want to make sure I'm not risking further damage and asking for feedback from people much more in the know than I am.

I wish back then I would've thought to do it on my head not just my face.

Do you feel you had positive results from doing it on your face? Fewer wrinkles? Increase collagen?

 

[hairloss_user]

So to summarize:

Needling every 2 weeks
0,8 - 1mm needle length
12x needles
Fastest setting with dermapen
1600 holes per cm2 (how many passes / amount of time per area does this come down to?)

Do you apply minoxidil afterwards?

Also is daily light needling with minoxidil out of the question here?

 

[baldlygoing]

Do you feel you had positive results from doing it on your face? Fewer wrinkles? Increase collagen?

Not a decrease in wrinkles. I feel like my skin looks pretty good but I've been using retin-a micro for about 10 years as well. It's one of those things that unless I could see a picture of myself now without having needled I wouldn't really know.

 

[newdutuser10]

Not a decrease in wrinkles. I feel like my skin looks pretty good but I've been using retin-a micro for about 10 years as well. It's one of those things that unless I could see a picture of myself now without having needled I wouldn't really know.

Do you do this on your undereyes?

Do you apply retin a or microneedling on the undereye region?

 

[baldlygoing]

I do. That area is pretty sensitive so it’s a little more difficult though.

 

[BaldLion]

A company can create the same type of object relatively soon?

 

[Photon]

A company can create the same type of object relatively soon?

If it works, the Chinese will copy it in a week.

 

[Xander94]

Excellent!!!
I would also suggest you apply some gel from Aloe Vera leaves after microneedling.
I've been taking care of my face since I was 22.
I literally have one wrinkle, whereas all my colleagues have aged badly.
Well, I'm bald and most have decent hair.
It's a win-win situation, I guess.

you are bald and fat middle age coper with high status job that allows you to meet and f*** many women

 

[Xander94]

I did the follica protocol, its like a sunburn entirely different sensation !

Hope fully it leads to improved results

 

[HAIRGOAT]

I did the follica protocol, its like a sunburn entirely different sensation !

Hope fully it leads to improved results

I had 48 hours of quite intense painfully burning / bruised sensation i used like thrice as much minoxidil as i couldn't massage in well in fact my scalp is still bit tender 5 days later.
With the 2.0mm to 1.5mm 4 to to 6 quick pass i was doing previously pain lasted 15mins after then the odd sting hear and there for 48 hours .

 

[Xander94]

I had 48 hours of quite intense painfully burning / bruised sensation i used like thrice as much minoxidil as i couldn't massage in well in fact my scalp is still bit tender 5 days later.
With the 2.0mm to 1.5mm 4 to to 6 quick pass i was doing previously pain lasted 15mins after then the odd sting hear and there for 48 hours .

Yes before it was a sting sensation that went away, now its sunburn entirely different, Im quite sure the results are going to be vastly different.

 

[2young2retire]

Since @Xander94 opened his Follica dermabrasion device patent thread, I did some digging into other patents by Follica. And, guess what: Another one has been filed: Methods for promoting hair growth. It is much more recent than the one found by Xander and it is about microneedling. Thus, as this looks much more like "the real deal", I decided to dedicate a separate thread for it.

I actually read the whole patent. Here is the short version of Follica's preferred protocol (they have different protocol versions):

• The primary target is to produce 1600 thin needle wounds per cm² every two weeks (their preferred parameter configuration is: using a 12 needle head (2 rows with 6 needles) with a width of 0.9 cm at a movement speed of 2 cm per second and an osicllation speed of 120 Hz)
• Needling device: electric dermaneedling device. They specifically state that dermarollers and dermabrasion devices are less effective. About dermarollers they write that tearing and cut-like wounds are ineffective for neogenesis and that one has to aim for real, "pointy" needle wounds without any tearing or cutting.
  
• Needle target depth: 0.8 mm. For long hair, this can be increased to 1.0 mm, but definitely not more than that. The wound should extend 0.8 mm into the skin but not deeper, 1.0 mm is only to compensate for longer hair.
• Needling frequency: Once every two weeks produces the best results, followed by once a week, followed by once every 4 weeks
• Needling head: 12 needles in an array of 2 x 6 at a width of 0.9 cm for the needle rows. Their specific design is described in Figure 105 of this patent of theirs
  
• Topical, 1st version: minoxidil 5% is the likely first version of the topical (maybe also finasteride or saw palmetto included, but about this I'm not sure)
  
• Topical, 2nd version: The second version of the topical is minoxidil plus one or a combination of the following three: finasteride, valproic acid, latanoprost
  
• Topical application frequency: Twice daily, preferrably once every 12 hours
  
• Areas to needle: Not only affected areas should be needled, but also at least 2 cm into non-bald/non-balding areas. Reason for that is probably quorum sensing.
• Needling device movement over the scalp: Each area should be covered at least once and at most twice, depending on the protocol variant. Depends on frequency and a few other things - won't go into detail here now, the details can be found in the patent. Short version: In the preferred protocol, each treatment area is covered once in horizontal and once in vertical movement direction over the scalp, making for a total of exactly two passes. Passes should be performed without any overlaps and without any gaps. They use the term "like a lawn mower" several times to describe how the scalp should be covered.
  
• Needling movement speed: 2 cm per second. They state that the translational movement speed is important to achieve the target needle hole density of 1600 per cm².
  
• Needling head oscillation frequency: 120 Hz
• Needling pressure: Only slight pressure such that the needles go all the way (0.8 mm) in, but not more. "Gliding" should be achieved.

Now the thing is that the needle heads for the dermapen devices we have are not arranged in 2 rows of 6 needles each. I'm also not sure of the oscillation frequency of the pens we have. We should do some calculations how we can best get to the primary target of 1600 wounds per cm² once every two weeks.

For those who want to read the patent, a hint on how to read patents: "In one embodiment" refers to specific and most effective product designs they plan on releasing, "in some embodiments" refers to other, less effective versions which they want to protect as well but do not necessarily plan on implementing.

As you can see, the protocol is not trivial to replicate (because of parameters, needle heads, but also for covering each area only twice without any gaps or overlaps, especially areas we can't see like the vertex), but this seems what they aim for. Let's see if we can somehow achieve the same.

to me this is a refined Dhurat protocol,
indeed every 2 weeks seems better for collagen synthesis and indeed so many small holes make sense.
is there any dermapen that can oscillate 120hz? (ebay or amazon)?

 

[HAIRGOAT]

to me this is a refined Dhurat protocol,
indeed every 2 weeks seems better for collagen synthesis and indeed so many small holes make sense.
is there any dermapen that can oscillate 120hz? (ebay or amazon)?

120HZ is 7200 RPM So all pens are close with 8000rpm i been looking they all seem the same even the 700bucks ones hoping some will find a mid range one that ticks all the boxs. hesitant to buy a new one when i have my trusty 25hz d2

 

[whatevr]

So for those of us who have the Dr. Pen A6, 8000 RPM would be the slowest speed setting according to this:

https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Microneedling-Wireless-Electric-Cartridges/dp/B07J468Y9N?th=1

 

[Xander94]

So for those of us who have the Dr. Pen A6, 8000 RPM would be the slowest speed setting according to this:

https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Microneedling-Wireless-Electric-Cartridges/dp/B07J468Y9N?th=1

so why are we needling for 30 mins then ?

 

[HAIRGOAT]

so why are we needling for 30 mins then ?

Because some of us have a derminator 2 thats 1500rpm the fact the a6 claims 8000 worrys me as this would mean every one using a a6 would of been near the best protocol all along if the a6 does move at 8000rpm as claimed so why not more accidental successes?

 

[hairloss_user]

I have the a6, but I am not sure how to approach this. I want to try 1.0 mm today, but not sure how to approach it like Follica

 

[Xander94]

Because some of us have a derminator 2 thats 1500rpm the fact the a6 claims 8000 worrys me as this would mean every one using a a6 would of been near the best protocol all along if the a6 does move at 8000rpm as claimed so why not more accidental successes?

tbhp is the same rpm.

I used it for 30 mins tho and i got sunburn, before I didnt feel like this when i used it for 10mins perhaps because I glided way slower than before ?