.25 propecia?

ciccione

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Any thoughts? My hairloss is not advanced at 31; however, it's thinning in a diffuse pattern (hairline mostly intact, but with temple recession of about 1.5 Norwood on the right, and 1.1 on the left).

I need my hair, and can't afford a shed (I'm in entertainment). Plus, I want to save the big guns for later, in case my hair deteriorates. My father has John Kerry hair, and my mom's brothers have most of theirs (her dad is a cueball, at 90, though).

I'm using Nizoral right now, and a whole whack of vits/minerals, which have maintained for a year or so.

If I were to use .25 or a Propecia pill, would this help someone in my circumstance? Or should I just take the whole pill? Sides, especially gyno or a bad shed, would be ruinous
 

ciccione

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Three or four reasons for micro-dosing:

1). I really can't afford a big shed or gyno.
2). I want to save some ammo for later, in case my hairloss gets worse.
3). Expense (I'll use Propecia).
4). According to the Merck studies, micro doses of finasteride are almost as effective as full doses.
 

helpmefindmyhair

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ciccione,

I too was considering going the micro-dosing route but now I think I'm backing off and am going to take the full 1mg.

4). According to the Merck studies, micro doses of finasteride are almost as effective as full doses.

I'm assuming you're referring to the following paragraph that appears at various places on the net:

Early dose ranging hair loss studies showed that much smaller dosages, such as 0.5 mg and even less, inhibited DHT on average almost as well as much higher dosages, such as 5 mg. One 6-month study comparing a placebo group, which lost hair, to users taking differing dosages of finasteride found that 0.2 mg of finasteride increased hair counts about 81% as much as 1 mg when compared to the placebo. Similarly, 1 mg increased hair counts 82% as much as a full 5 mg compared to placebo. The tiny 0.2 mg dosage did about 66% as well at regrowth and retention as 5 mg. Accordingly, the 1 mg dosage was probably a compromise designed to be high enough to pick up those who may not respond as well to the lower dosages, but low enough to minimize side effects. Many of those who take less than 1 mg opt for either 0.5 mg or 0.625 mg (1/8th of a Proscar tablet). Some people also skip days periodically based on the fact that finasteride suppresses DHT for up to several days and also on the old pharmacological rationale that it may help preclude any possible tendencies toward tolerance, which sometimes happens with continuous long-term use of medications.

Was that really through a study by Merck? Can we please get some definitive confirmation on that? Can someone please provide a link? I'd like to read that entire study and confirm that it was actually a legitimate double-blind study. I have to question how reliable that information is when the only thing we see of it is that same paragraph copied word for word over and over again.

As for your reasoning behind taking a micro-dose:

1. What has led you to believe that a smaller dosage will cause less shedding? Is that just an assumption on your part?

2. You said you want to "save some ammo for later." What makes you believe that increasing the dosage in the future will significantly increase the results? Based upon what I've read I don't think it would be a noticeable change.

By the way, one poster on here said that a dermatologist stated that some study found that less than 1mg was not nearly as effective in the long-term. Once again though, that can't be confirmed.
 
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Man if your not prepared to shed some hair than don't go on finasteride.

But it sounds like your situation isn't that bad. Maybe if you start finasteride now you won't shed so much since it doesn't sound like your hairloss has progressed that much.

Too many people look at the negative effects of the drug and don't focus on the long term benefit. If you don't start finasteride now your hair could undergo more progressive damage by doing nothing.
 
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NorwoodClimber said:
Man if your not prepared to shed some hair than don't go on finasteride.

But it sounds like your situation isn't that bad. Maybe if you start finasteride now you won't shed so much since it doesn't sound like your hairloss has progressed that much.

Too many people look at the negative effects of the drug and don't focus on the long term benefit. If you don't start finasteride now your hair could undergo more progressive damage by doing nothing.

Yep! listen to Mr Climber him speaka da truth.
 

helpmefindmyhair

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Man, is anybody prepared to shed some hair?
 

science-jay

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0.25 micro-dosing of finasteride

HI Ciccione!

For a long while i did hesitate to start finasteride, also because of (1) fear of side effects and (2) costs. Because i'm, as a researcher at a university, familiar with reading and comparing a lot of published articles, I also read almost all the puplished articles on finasteride (Merck and not Merck funded). I came to the conclusion that the 1mg is the most sufficient (like Merck), with in most articles a medium serum DHT-decrease between 69 end 73% and scalp DHT levels with a similair decrease, hair counts in the study by Roberts et al. were +65 (scalp inch) for the 1mg group after 6 months. But the 0.2 mg finasteride group did also have a significant inhibition of serum DHT at about 62%, so a little bit lower, scalp DHT levels were still reduces to the same as in the 1mg group. Hair counts for 0.2 mg group were around +38, so still increasing hair counts. In the placebo group there was a decrease in hair counts. Even 0.05mg finasteride was enough for a DHT decrease of 50%!
So if you want battle hairloss with finasteride (mainly maintaining), I think 0.2 is OK. 1mg is more effective, but also more expensive and if you will have side effects they will probably be worse than with the 0.2 mg dose, because there is less serum DHT (but this is speculation).
Personnaly I'm using 0.16mg finasteride. I cut the Propecia pill in 6.

here are some abstracts from articles:


Clinical dose ranging studies with finasteride, a type 2 5alpha-reductase inhibitor, in men with male pattern hair loss.

Roberts JL, Fiedler V, Imperato-McGinley J, Whiting D, Olsen E, Shupack J, Stough D, DeVillez R, Rietschel R, Savin R, Bergfeld W, Swinehart J, Funicella T, Hordinsky M, Lowe N, Katz I, Lucky A, Drake L, Price VH, Weiss D, Whitmore E, Millikan L, Muller S, Gencheff C, et al.
Northwest Cutaneous Research Specialists, Portland, Oregan, USA.

BACKGROUND: Androgenetic alopecia is a common condition of adult men. Finasteride, a type 2 5alpha-reductase inhibitor, decreases the formation of dihydrotestosterone from testosterone. OBJECTIVE: Two separate clinical studies were conducted to establish the optimal dose of finasteride in men with this condition. METHODS: Men from 18 to 36 years of age with moderate vertex male pattern hair loss received finasteride 5, 1, 0.2, or 0.01 mg/day or placebo based on random assignment. Efficacy was determined by scalp hair counts, patient self-assessment, investigator assessment, and assessment of clinical photographs. Safety was assessed by clinical and laboratory measurements and by analysis of adverse experiences.

RESULTS: Efficacy was demonstrated for all end points for finasteride at doses of 0.2 mg/day or higher, with 1 and 5 mg demonstrating similar efficacy that was superior to lower doses. Efficacy of the 0.01 mg dose was similar to placebo. No significant safety issues were identified in the trials. CONCLUSION: Finasteride 1 mg/day is the optimal dose for the treatment of men with male pattern hair loss and was subsequently identified for further clinical development.


J Am Acad Dermatol. 1999 Oct;41(4):550-4. Related Articles, Links

The effects of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgen levels in men with androgenetic alopecia.

Drake L, Hordinsky M, Fiedler V, Swinehart J, Unger WP, Cotterill PC, Thiboutot DM, Lowe N, Jacobson C, Whiting D, Stieglitz S, Kraus SJ, Griffin EI, Weiss D, Carrington P, Gencheff C, Cole GW, Pariser DM, Epstein ES, Tanaka W, Dallob A, Vandormael K, Geissler L, Waldstreicher J.
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences, Oklahoma City, USA.

BACKGROUND: Data suggest that androgenetic alopecia is a process dependent on dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and type 2 5alpha-reductase. Finasteride is a type 2 5alpha-reductase inhibitor that has been shown to slow further hair loss and improve hair growth in men with androgenetic alopecia. OBJECTIVE: We attempted to determine the effect of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgens. METHODS: Men with androgenetic alopecia (N = 249) underwent scalp biopsies before and after receiving 0.01, 0.05, 0.2, 1, or 5 mg daily of finasteride or placebo for 42 days.

RESULTS: Scalp skin DHT levels declined significantly by 13.0% with placebo and by 14.9%, 61.6%, 56. 5%, 64.1%, and 69.4% with 0.01, 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg doses of finasteride, respectively. Serum DHT levels declined significantly (P <.001) by 49.5%, 68.6%, 71.4%, and 72.2% in the 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg finasteride treatment groups, respectively. CONCLUSION: In this study, doses of finasteride as low as 0.2 mg per day maximally decreased both scalp skin and serum DHT levels. These data support the rationale used to conduct clinical trials in men with male pattern hair loss at doses of finasteride between 0.2 and 5 mg.
 

ciccione

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Thanks for the response, Science-Jay. Could you please explain, in further detail, your own experience with the micro dose of finasteride (i.e., sides, shedding, efficacy, etc.).

Thanks,
C.
 

helpmefindmyhair

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Science jay,

If money was no worry would you take the full 1mg dose or would you still take the micro-dose?

Money is of no concern to me. Do you still suggest I take a micro-dose?

I understand that a micro-dose can be nearly as effective as the full 1mg but that's not enough reason for me to switch to a micro-dose.

Do you take a micro-dose because you are concerned about other effects that finasteride could have on your body? That is the only reason I'd take a micro-dose.
 

science-jay

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micro dose finasteride

Hi Ciccione,

I've just started finasteride 0.16 mg for over a month now, so it's to early to tell what it actually does. I didn't experience any side effects yet. I keep you posted,
greetz,

by the way, I did made a little mistake in the earlier post. Haircount (square inch) with 0.2 finasteride after 6 months was +55 compared to +69 for 1mg finasteride. So a little better than i described earlier.

greetz,
S.J.
 

science-jay

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Hi Helpmefindmyhair,

I'm not really shure if prostate schrinkage is a problem at all, but Merck did report in some studies that the 5mg dose of finasteride did schrink the prostate for about 23% and the 1mg dose did this by 18%. They didn't report how much shrinking there was in the 0.2 mg dose but they said this was less. Theoreticaly could a decrease in serum DHT on a (very) long term also have some influence on muscle-mass (decreasing). But this isn't proven practicaly yet. Also when reading old posts on this site in the propecia section from 2002 and on, there were a couple of users who had side effects on 1 or 1.25 mg finasteride but they were much less severe with the 0.5 or 0.25 dose.
 

helpmefindmyhair

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Science-jay,

Theoreticaly could a decrease in serum DHT on a (very) long term also have some influence on muscle-mass (decreasing).

How long term are we talking about?
 

helpmefindmyhair

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Science jay,

Can you give us links to those studies?
 
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