6 years of treatment: results, advice and request for advice

[grote_smurf]

All :

This is my story of 6 years of hairloss treatment. Based on my rich experience, I can give you some advice, however, I also would like to get some advice from you. (btw, I have been a regular reader of these boards)

My experience

- My hair started thinning about 6 years ago, so I went to the dermatologist and he gave Minoxidil 3%.
- Minoxidil alone didn't do the trick, so 6 months and lots of lost hairs later he gave me a prescription for Proscar 1 mg (I was on of the first patients in my country, belgium, to get it for male pattern baldness)
- The combination minoxidil/proscar helped me out really well for about 3 years. shedding/thinning stopped and I regrew quite some hair.
- Two and a half years ago, I started thinning again, so I've looked on the web to find alternative solutions. I went from minoxidil 3% to minoxidil 5% (2xday), I added Nizoral (3-4xweek), I added spironolactone 2% (1xday) and I added Tretinoine/Retin-A 0,025% (every evening before minoxidil). That worked great for another 1,5 years.
- Then I started thinning again about a year ago. I went from spironolactone 2% 1x day to spironolactone 3% 2x day and I increased the concentration of Retin-A from 0,025% to 0,05%. This worked fine for about a year.

Now, today, my hair starts thinning again. It's still looking OK (nobody sees that I have hairproblems yet), but it's thinning fastly again...

Advice to starters

Don't start immediatly with the entire range of possible solutions. Start of with just minoxidil/proscar and be patient for about 6 months. I believe it will help in most cases. I afterwards you start thinning again, add something else to boost things up again. This strategy has kept my hair looking good for 6 years.

Request for advice

What could I add to my regimen to give it a new boost??? What has the highest probability on success?? Please help me out here!!! Many many thanks

 

[maddoc23]

Avodart.

D

 

[tomsmith]

what about folligen?

 

[Guest]

Growth Hormone Releasers:

Resistance exercise

L-Arginine

L-Ornithine

L-Glutamine

L-Glycine

L-Lysine

Tryptophan

Niacin

GHB

 

[shivs]

Time has caught up with you my friend. Hopefully something will come out in the next 2-3 years. Meanwhile just try to hold on for dear life.

 

[grote_smurf]

thanks for the answers. The reason why I'd rather not start with Avodart is that it's so damn expensive. It would cost me like 50 USD a month, which is about 5 x more expensive than proscar...

 

[The Gardener]

Thanks for your input, grote_smurf.

I am wondering if perhaps your experiences have in any way been influenced by Minoxidil tolerance? Many posters here, and much documentation on hair loss, have claimed that the scalp develops a tolerance for Minoxidil over the course of a year or so. In effect, as Minoxidil is very much a dose-dependent treatment, after a year or so of constant application the cells of the scalp develop a tolerance to the minoxidil and the positive effects of minoxidil soon tail off. I have heard several long term minoxidil users, as well as one I know personally, who say that once a year they refrain from using minoxidil for a period of 2-4 weeks.

This gives the scalp biology a chance to get used to minoxidil NOT being present, and as a result the cells of the scalp restart their tolerance levels for the chemical. After the 2-4 week abstinence, restarting minoxidil application continues the positive effects that minoxidil brings to hair growth, with little to no down side as 1 month without the chemical is NOT long enough to seriously detrimentally effect the hair growth cycle but IS long enough to fool the cells once again to drop their tolerance to it.

What do you think guys? Any more comment on this theory??

Best wishes

 

[grote_smurf]

thanks gardener! If that would be true, it would be a great help. I haven't skipped a single day in applying Minoxidil over the last 6 years.

Would the same strategy apply for other topicals, e.g. spironolactone?

Advice please!

 

[Guest]

Grote-smurf

This is in relation to the GH-Releasers, L-Arginine, L-Lysine etc etc, but is a good guide to the endocrine systems ability to build up tolerences.

...."There are two reasons that you should cycle, that is, use them for a period of time and then go off them for a period of time. first, all hormones in the body work via a delicate, complex feedback mechinisms, with one hormone signaling another to turn on or off in response to the amount of hormone circulating in the body. By continually suppliny the hormone from outside you can interrupt the natural feedback mechanism............

............there is an art and science to cycling, except for basic vitamin, mineral and anitoxidant supplements, cycling any substance is recomended. your body will adjust to most things and the response you are looking for will be attenuated.....

...it goes on and on and on, sh*t I can't type all this!!!!!!

basically

If you are using anything that is effecting the endocrine system (both propecia and minoxidil and to a lesser extent I suspect nizoral), it is recommended to take them every day for four to six weeks and then cycling off for two weeks, this won't screw up your bodys system of recognising these compounds.

like I said this time scale is based on GH-releasers, so maybe a year is good for minoxidil, if people get a result, I might take a couple of weeks off every six months, the same with propecia, and Nizoral.

sh*t! you have been working your poor scalp for 6 years with no time off, have a hair holiday, take it somewhere nice, maybe Eurodisney, buy it some flowers, maybe a nice meal for two and a glass of biotin wine.

Ty

 

[The Fluke]

Grote-smurf

This is in relation to the GH-Releasers, L-Arginine, L-Lysine etc etc, but is a good guide to the endocrine systems ability to build up tolerences.

...."There are two reasons that you should cycle, that is, use them for a period of time and then go off them for a period of time. first, all hormones in the body work via a delicate, complex feedback mechinisms, with one hormone signaling another to turn on or off in response to the amount of hormone circulating in the body. By continually suppliny the hormone from outside you can interrupt the natural feedback mechanism............

............there is an art and science to cycling, except for basic vitamin, mineral and anitoxidant supplements, cycling any substance is recomended. your body will adjust to most things and the response you are looking for will be attenuated.....

...it goes on and on and on, sh*t I can't type all this!!!!!!

basically

If you are using anything that is effecting the endocrine system (both propecia and minoxidil and to a lesser extent I suspect nizoral), it is recommended to take them every day for four to six weeks and then cycling off for two weeks, this won't screw up your bodys system of recognising these compounds.

like I said this time scale is based on GH-releasers, so maybe a year is good for minoxidil, if people get a result, I might take a couple of weeks off every six months, the same with propecia, and Nizoral.

sh*t! you have been working your poor scalp for 6 years with no time off, have a hair holiday, take it somewhere nice, maybe Eurodisney, buy it some flowers, maybe a nice meal for two and a glass of biotin wine.

Ty

:lol: :lol: :lol:


nice post, on a serious side, have you actually cycled propecia yourself, or anyone else for that matter? if so what affect did it have?

 

[Guest]

If youve been on stuff for 6 years and are beginning to lose ground then ii would consider a much stronger anti-androgen than spironolactone like Fluridil, Eil Crannel or even RU. spironolactone for some people is worthless. Maybe even add some Phenytoin capsules to your minoxidil, it works in a similar way to minoxidil and use minoxidil on a hydrated scalp if you have never had any side effects previously from its use, it will give better absoprtion. Dont bother with `cycleing` products as it will make you shed then you have to gain what you lost back. Waste of time.

 

[grote_smurf]

zimmy,

do you have any "evidence" for Eil Crannel AKA 17a-estradiol being significantly more effective than spironolactone 3%?

Also, what's the recommended concentration? Is that 0,025 - 0,05%?

thanks

 

[Guest]

zimmy,

do you have any "evidence" for Eil Crannel AKA 17a-estradiol being significantly more effective than spironolactone 3%?

Also, what's the recommended concentration? Is that 0,025 - 0,05%?

Theres very little about Eil Crannel on this site, because its not proven and this site prefers quite rightly to talk about proven treatments. spironolactone is good on paper, but only really effective if used twice a day IMO.

Youll need to do a net search for Eil Crannel or have a search for info on
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums

Search under Eil Crannel, 17a , estradiol. I believe Eil Crannel is something like 0,025 in concentration, there is also a similar product called Avixis which maybe be more concentrated.

 

[Guest]

hhhmmmm....

my post on cycling has it would seem fallen on deaf ears, the science is solid, know and researched, the anecdotal evidence backs this up, people here stop reponding after a year or so, what does everyone think is going on?

Does your scalp just get bored of minoxidil?

Or is there a reaction from your endocrine system?

....."Dont bother with `cycleing` products as it will make you shed then you have to gain what you lost back. Waste of time.".....

where, Zimmy, have you got this Information, that 'cycleing' (sic) is a 'waste of time'

Do your own reaearch, it is basic stuff.

I personally will be giving my scalp a couple of days off minoxidil every 4 weeks and a week off proscar every four months, not enough to induce a shed but enough to give my scalp time to get into shape for the next onslaught and my endocrine system a holiday.

Ty

(don't let your staff have a lunch break/holiday/or home before midnight, they will be working more and you will get more done, it's so simple!)