Almost 3 Months Into Propecia And Dht Hasn't Changed At All,hormones Kinda Messed Up.need Advice!

[GRme11]

Hello to all members.I will try to give details as much as I can,thank you.

1)Before trying Topical Finasteride and Oral:My baseline Testosterone and DHT blood tests were(June 2019):
Testosterone:806(Normal:249-836) ng/dL
DHT:541(Normal:250-990)pg/mL
Free Testosterone:12.6(Normal:5.8-18)ng/dL
Iron:133(Normal:60-160)μg/dL
Ferritin:142(Normal:30-400)ng/mL
D3:20.6(Normal:20-50)ng/mL
Then I tested all these(July 2019):
Estradiol E2:22(Normal:<60)pg/ml
Progesterone:0.36(Normal:<0.2)ng/ml
FSH:5.8(Normal:1.5-12.4)iu/l
LH:4.9(Normal:1.7-8.6)iu/l
S-DHEA:332(Normal:211-492)μg/dl
Androstenedione:2.26(Normal:0.6-3.1)ng/ml
SHBG:63(Normal:10-80)nmol/l
Prolactin:7(Normal:4-15.2)ng/ml
TSH:2.76(Normal:0.27-4.7)μIU/ml
T4:7.08(Normal:5.1-14.1)μg/dl
T3:108(Normal:80-200)ng/dl
*I was using only Minoxidil by that time

2)I jumped into Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil in August 2019 and then I managed to test in October 2019 the following:
Estradiol E2:15(Normal:<60)
Testosterone:564(Normal:249-836)
DHT:302(Normal:250-990)
D3:18.9(Normal:20-50)->Deficiency

3)January 2020 I started taking oral finasteride 3 times per week for 3 weeks(0.5mg) and I was using as well Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil.Then at the end of January I got another test and the results were:
(I got a general blood test as well and I got some pretty low results)
RBC:3.9(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.3(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.9(Normal:40-51.5)
Estradiol E2:20
Testosterone:644
Estrone E1:31.9(Normal:15-65) No Baseline Here!
DHT:298(Normal:250-990)
***Rare Test:IGF-1:145(Normal:105-346)ng/mL

4)I finally jumped into Oral Finasteride(Propecia Brand) in mid February.I started 0.5mg everyday and in April I move into 1mg daily,which is the dose I am using at the moment.I am also still using Topical Finasteride plus Minoxidil. 6 days ago(6/5/20) I managed to get a blood test and the results were:
RBC:3.8(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.2(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.7(Normal:40-51.5)
Iron:71(Normal:60-160)
Ferritin:120.8(Normal:30-400)
D3:16.3(Normal:20-50)
B12:612(Normal:225-1000)
Estradiol E2:5(Almost Undetectable!!Just for 1 unit!)
Testosterone:465.7(Normal:249-836)
Free Testosterone:7.2(Normal:5.8-18)
SHBG:58.7(Normal:10-80)
Progesterone:0.2(Normal:<0.2)
Estrone E1:21(Normal:15-65)
DHT:313!(Normal:250-990)

5)Last summer I completely changed my diet as well,since I read diffrent things about inflammation and hair loss etc. I lost 20kg gradually(in about one and half year).My body fat also has been decreased.
Baseline(as much as I could remember) was:25%
23/1/20 went:16%
13/3/20 went 12.6%(Latest check!)

*All blood tests were taken early in the morning

So as you can see things are a bit of a mess.First,we have these low RBC,Hemoglobin,Hematocrit and the deficiency to Vitamin D3.Iron and Ferritin seems to decline as well.Then,topical finasteride and my little period test into oral,have managed to low DHT and now DHT has got a bit of increment,Testosterone and Free Testo lowered and E2 went extremely low! That's are kinda of reversing results,since Finasteride should have lowered DHT further(65-70%) and increase Testo and Estrogen! A member told me and I read it as well that the low body fat it's capable of lowering the aromatase enzyme and in general the Estrogens.So that could be a reason for the low levels.I am really worried right now,because I might be resistant to the 5AR blockers(I read diffrent stories as well here,users mentioned that Dutasteride or Finasteride didn't change their DHT levels at all and this are kinda rare occasions...genetics are rough ...).Although,in my case the things are kinda strange I guess.I mean how my DHT got managed to decrease before,but now not only decrease further but it has increase! In my experience with the drug,I felt that my hair got thicker,shedding some days was not so much but it has never stopped! From the end of the April though,I am shedding so much and I am losing more thinner at the root hair,basically I am losing every kind of hair and I am feeling that I don't have this thickening and the sense feeling fuller my hair.Drug totally stopped working?? That's is devastating I am only 19..Imagine now that I won't be able to respond to 5AR's..losing hopes..What's next,what drugs,what to do?..I got results from minoxidil and I am considering myself so lucky,that changed my life,my psychology and then here I am trying to not fall down,trying to keep what I have gained..

I really need your opinions and your help here members if you can,I would totally appreciate it.
I hope I didn't was so tedious ,but I tried to explain.
I want to say many thanks for your time reading this and for your contribution!
*Sorry if I have mistakes in my text.Thanks again!

 

[baba_yaga]

My derm told me that DHT levels test are so inaccurate, they are not worth it.

 

[FilthyFrancis]

My derm told me that DHT levels test are so inaccurate, they are not worth it.

He is right, to some extent. I think it fluctuates by +/- 20%. Were the blood samples drawn at the same time of the day? What concentration of topical finasteride are you using?

 

[GRme11]

Thanks @baba_yaga and @FilthyFrancis for your responses.Even if they are inaccurate in some extent,at least it was needed for DHT to go far lower than this(if the drug is working).I will call the doctor from my lab that I am doing the tests and discuss how much of inaccurate the results could be.Also what about my other hormones,testo lowering and E2 fully down.FilthyFrancis:I am using Essengen-6 plus from Minoxidilmax, I think is 0.05% of finasteride along with 6% Minoxidil.Thank you both for your time!

*Also I read on an older thread that a member didn't respond to Dutasteride and DHT levels stayed the same.He mentioned that he check the results at 3 diffrent labs and all came up the same!
*Here is the thread:https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/dutasteride-not-lowering-my-dht-levels.122816/

 

[baba_yaga]

Did you get any sides on oral finasteride?

Also keep us updated with what your lab doctor says. Good luck.

 

[FilthyFrancis]

Well, I would not say you have no response to finasteride, given that there appear to be a DHT drop between baseline and the second blood tests.

So you take 0.05% twice a day (2x 1mL) + oral 1 mg everyday?

That's a pretty strong regimen. I am not surprised to see that DHT inhibition was not so different between topical only and topical + oral regimen, given that 1 mg of topical (2 mL of 0.05% concentrated solution) have been proven to have a similar effect on serum DHT than 1mg oral (cf. Polichem study). You are probably beyond the flat line anyway in these two situations.

What's indeed surprising is that you DHT seem to have mildly decreased when it should've dropped way more between baseline and topical regimen. Maybe you have some form of resistance to the drug. It's the first time I hear about it to be honest.

 

[GRme11]

Did you get any sides on oral finasteride?

Also keep us updated with what your lab doctor says. Good luck.

Yes I will keep an update..as for the side effects what I noticed even since I started the Topical Finasteride was a little itching on my nipples same as the Oral,but this happened totally until now,about to 6-7 times.Also I have noticed that my semen is more watery since I started the Oral.Last thing that I have observed,is the feeling being "emotionally weaker",I mean there were 4-5 times that I cried more easily,like a break down and cry,for example.Also my erections since beginning the Oral,especially morning woods,were eliminated or at least they were not so constant.But now from the end of April and so on,I am having the morning woods on a daily basis again.That's all I have noticed or at least tried to.Thank you for your time and your response!

 

[GRme11]

Well, I would not say you have no response to finasteride, given that there appear to be a DHT drop between baseline and the second blood tests.

So you take 0.05% twice a day (2x 1mL) + oral 1 mg everyday?

That's a pretty strong regimen. I am not surprised to see that DHT inhibition was not so different between topical only and topical + oral regimen, given that 1 mg of topical (2 mL of 0.05% concentrated solution) have been proven to have a similar effect on serum DHT than 1mg oral (cf. Polichem study). You are probably beyond the flat line anyway in these two situations.

What's indeed surprising is that you DHT seem to have mildly decreased when it should've dropped way more between baseline and topical regimen. Maybe you have some form of resistance to the drug. It's the first time I hear about it to be honest.

I am taking 4 times a week the Topical Finasteride(2 ml,so that is 1mg Finasteride Topically,in total=4mg) and the other 3 days I am continuing my Kirkland Minoxidil(that's the Minoxidil that I started first)+Daily 1mg Propecia,that's my regime.Indeed the suprising part is that with Topical has been lowered,then with some trial of Oral stayed at the same,but now instead of go lower than the normal levels since I am taking Propecia daily ,it came back the same and higher.....(Yes I read about the efficacy of Topical Finasteride,the polichem study)
There are a couple of threads that are mentioning resistance,like that one that I mentioned previously.Thank you for your time and your help!

 

[baba_yaga]

Yes I will keep an update..as for the side effects what I noticed even since I started the Topical Finasteride was a little itching on my nipples same as the Oral,but this happened totally until now,about to 6-7 times.Also I have noticed that my semen is more watery since I started the Oral.Last thing that I have observed,is the feeling being "emotionally weaker",I mean there were 4-5 times that I cried more easily,like a break down and cry,for example.Also my erections since beginning the Oral,especially morning woods,were eliminated or at least they were not so constant.But now from the end of April and so on,I am having the morning woods on a daily basis again.That's all I have noticed or at least tried to.Thank you for your time and your response!

Although sides are not a sign that finasteride is stopping hair loss, they are a sign that your hormone levels are changed. So, if you got actual (not placebo) side effects, then rest assured that finasteride did, partially at least, inhibit DHT.

 

[GRme11]

Although sides are not a sign that finasteride is stopping hair loss, they are a sign that your hormone levels are changed. So, if you got actual (not placebo) side effects, then rest assured that finasteride did, partially at least, inhibit DHT.

Thanks for response.I talked with the doctor from the lab and he said that the result was double checked and in diffrent machines as well and came up the same/same values!!! Also he mentioned to me that the previous result as well back in January for DHT was double checked as well and came up again the same/same values!(298 back then I forgot to mention it in the main post).So as it seems the results are indeed correct.Thanks again

 

[GRme11]

*** I forgot to mention the DHT back in January 2020 it was:298 ng/mL(Normal:250-990).I am adding this in the main post!
*So we have the DHT levels from 298(29/1/20) to 313(6/5/20)

 

[Sanchez1234]

I have the same problem. I didnt do baseline test but on dutasteride my dht remained the same, in middle range. Didnt do sh*t for my hair but gave me gyno..

 

[bluecyclone]

You shouldn’t dive deeper on the Ferritin and Vitamin D.

 

[GRme11]

I have the same problem. I didnt do baseline test but on dutasteride my dht remained the same, in middle range. Didnt do sh*t for my hair but gave me gyno..

Hello and thanks for response.That's bad to hear and worrying at the same time..Did you check your estrogens??I hope your are in better situation now.Thanks again

 

[GRme11]

You shouldn’t dive deeper on the Ferritin and Vitamin D.

Hello thanks for your response.So you mean that I don't have to increase further these two right? Pretty strange though,with normal Iron,Ferritin and B12,my Hemoglobin,RBC and Hematocrit are low.I read also that Finasteride(with a combination of Flutamide) it can be capable to decrease Hemoglobin and Hematocrit.Thanks again

*Study:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10233450

 

[bluecyclone]

Are you saying you want to
decrease those factors? I think this is a familiar profile low iron low ferritin low hemoglobin low hemocrit. Did you have IGF-1 checked?

 

[GRme11]

Are you saying you want to
decrease those factors? I think this is a familiar profile low iron low ferritin low hemoglobin low hemocrit. Did you have IGF-1 checked?

No I am wondering why they are low that’s what I am saying(sorry if I made myself not clear).Yes I have checked IGF-1, I mentioned it above (first post) value was:145(Normal:105-346)ng/mL
Thank you!

 

[NSix]

@OP

Finasteride has a lot of variability.

70.8 +/- 18.3% suppression observed with 5 mg finasteride.​

dutasteride has much less variation with +/- 3.3%.

Consider also that there are studies demonstrating that certain particular genetic variations benefit more from 5AR inhibitors.

You could be a non-responder or you could be responding on the lower end.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15126539

 

[GRme11]

@OP

Finasteride has a lot of variability.

70.8 +/- 18.3% suppression observed with 5 mg finasteride.​

dutasteride has much less variation with +/- 3.3%.

Consider also that there are studies demonstrating that certain particular genetic variations benefit more from 5AR inhibitors.

You could be a non-responder or you could be responding on the lower end.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15126539

Hello and thank you for you response.That’s very interesting I checked the study.Maybe I am a responder on the lower end as you said.What about Testosterone,it should have been higher,shouldn’t it? (Although there are some studies saying that increased for those who had already low Testosterone or it’s increased first and then decline).Thanks again

 

[GRme11]

@bluecyclone @baba_yaga any other comments on this?? Sorry but I am becoming more and more worried as the days are passing and simultaneously reading similar threads.
Hair still thinning/feeling thinner and I have observed that not only they are thinner towards the root but many of them they are less darker(less colorful).This was not the case,I was shedding more thicker and darker hairs back then.Thank you and sorry if I bothering.