anti-inflammatories, lupus, and hair loss

[CCS]

I'm sure everyone knows there is no cure to lupus. Some people are trying herbal routes, and Boswellia serratta is an anti-inflamatory some are taking on lupus forums.

Since hair loss looks like organ rejection, I'm thinking of applying that topically. Chamomile oil and rose mary oil are also anti-inflamatories. It is a fact that organ donor recipients using immuno suppressants regrow more hair on their heads than people who get castrated.

The first can be bought here:

http://www.herbalremedies.com/boswellia ... FQodVWGy-g

Here are my questions:

1. Do these work locally?
2. Are there side effects from constant use?
3. Will the skin become dependent on them, or adjust?
4. Do they work locally, or systemically?
5. Will they make blood vessels contract a bit, countering some of what minoxidil is doing?

The stuff is cheap, easy to use, smells good, and is sold over the counter. Sound harmless. I'm just worried about long term use.

 

[CCS]

I did some more thinking. Many people take asprin every day to prevent heart attacks, and many old people take it for pain relief. Does anyone know if it wears off after a while, or if people have really thick blood when they stop taking asprin?

I heard that rhumatoid arthritis is an attack of the immune system on the joints. Don't know if that is true. I don't know if asprin slows that down, or just reduces the pain, or just lubricates it somehow. Also, on a blog I read a post by a woman with lupus who says when it really flares up, she takes I forgot which, but i think she said either asprin or motirin or something, and that calms it down. Again, I don't know if that just helps the pain relief, or if that actually makes the immune system calm down.

I'm getting the impression that long term use probably is not bad as long as the dose is low, but I'm not sure if these drugs actually calm down the immune system. If they do, then putting the chamomile oil, rose mary oil, and that other stuff on my head would be good. If it just is a pain killer and takes away itching by numbing it, then the stuff is worthless. I guess the next step would be to research what effect the stuff has on the nervous system.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[CCS]

http://www.brown.edu/Administration/New ... 6-010.html

The researchers found that all the members of the immune system work together, controlled by one central unit. The immune system sends out inflammatory proteins to "heat it up" and anti-inflammatoreis to "cool it down". Even strangers, the anti-inflammatories tell certain cells to make inflammatories, and vise versa, like a cycle. The researchers concluded that taking asprin to fight arthritis might not be effective. The also found that mice who are incapable of making inflammatories could not get arthritis, but also died earlier from disease.

I don't know why it would be benificial to have one make the other, except in at the extremes as a safe guard so too much of one is not made. I also don't understand what their results mean, since if my finger gets infected, I think only my finger gets inflamed, and everything else does not, so I don't understand this unity statement. Also, if I'm only using anti-inflammatories locally, I don't know if that would creat more inflammatories. I'd have to find out what cells make the inflammatories in response to anti-inflammatories, and where these cells are located.

 

[Harie]

She probably takes something like Advil which is an anti-inflamitory.

Though I would never recommend taking advil every day.

If you really want to see what taking a strong anti-inflamitory internally will do, try to find Pentoxifylline (sold as Trental). Don't know if you can find without a prescription though.

Naturals you can take that help with inflammation:

Pomegranite Extract
ALA
Taurine
Bromelain
Papain
Stinging Nettles
Fish Oil
Borage Oil, Evening Primrose Oil, Black Currant Oil
Carnosine
Vitamin E
NAC
Vitamin K

If you're going to take fish oil, you need to take one of the oils below it. Some recommend a 1:1 ratio while others recommend a 3:1 ratio in favor of fish oil. Personally I use a 2:1 ratio.

At a minimum, you should start out taking fish oil & another oil that contains GLA.

I saw this regemin listed on an arthritis site to combat inflammation, it was used in combination with internal oils:
Carnosine - 1000mg/day
Nettle Leaf - 1000mg/day
Vitamin E - unknown dosage
NAC - unknown dosage
Vitamin K - unknown dosage

 

[CCS]

Thanks for the list of anti-inflammatories. i was unaware of the importance of GLA when taking omega-3's.

I'm planning to use the anti-inflamatories as topicals on my head only, since the immune system damages hair follicles. I did not know about the ALA. I guess I'll make my separated fatty acids 10% flax and 20% borage.

The nice thing about a long list is that if some of them only work systemically, there is a good chance that some of the others will work locally.

Do you know anything about the mechanisms of each of them that could tell us which ones would work topically at the point of application with just a local effect, and which ones only work by a systemic mechanism?

 

[Harie]

Below is more info on oils and a very good picture of Omega 3 & Omega 6 conversions. The picture also explains why flax seed oil is pointless to take for most people. I'd post the picture here, but I don't know how to do that.

http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums/viewthread.cfm?f=1&t=17755

Do you know anything about the mechanisms of each of them that could tell us which ones would work topically at the point of application with just a local effect, and which ones only work by a systemic mechanism?

There's a pretty interesting thread on HLH about using Papain topically. As for the rest of what I listed, I have no idea which would be systematic or local.

 

[Harie]

Since we're on the subject of oils & anti-inflamitories here's a good article about why flax seed oil is pointless to take for 99% of people in the world.

http://express-press-release.com/23/ Flax Oil Loses to Fish Oil and Borage Oil for Dieters.php

 

[CCS]

flax oil does not help most americans because only the young can convert it. at least flax seeds have other good stuff.

too bad there are so many spelling errors in that article. It makes me wonder if linoleic and linolenic acids are getting mixed up.

so trans fats and even high amounts of other oils make the body unable to make omega-3's and GLA. So does a lot of sugar. That is why I only get my sugar from fruit.

excess ALA can make prostiglandin2, which is kind of bad, or it said AA, which can be in large amounts. So I should not overdose on the seeds.

It says we should get 2.4g per day of long omega-3's. Interesting, becuase I heard that 1g is better, though 2 is OK or as good. I read that more than 3 has bad effects, and you need at least 500mg to get any nice effects at all.

so anti-inflammatories are good for the whole body, according to this article. So i guess if the topicals go systemic, then big deal. I should just try to get the ones that have the strongest, healthiest effect locally. I think that rules out ALA. From this article, i think what you previously read about ALA depended on its conversion to DHA and EPA once ingested.

OK, If I use lye to separated the fatty acids in borage oil, with that destroy the GLA? I know that stuff is unstable to UV light and extreme heat.

 

[CCS]

I suspect the GLA and chamomile and rose mary oil will work locally, and the ALA might work locally, but I won't count on it or put flax on my skin for it. I don't know about this other stuff, but I think it might be easy to find in a google search. However, I'll probably just find famous conclusions, and if the researchers were wrong due to poor experiment design, I will then be off.

 

[shel74nf]

There's an anti-cancer diet called the Budwig diet, where the flax oil is mixed with a high sulfur food like cottage cheese or yogurt, apparently this helps with delivery.She does mention that flax oil by itself probably does more harm than good.

 

[CCS]

OK, so scratch the ALA and flax oil. Borage is what we need. I read the nutritional label on my borage seed oil, at it says CLA instead of ALA.

 

[CCS]

I'm starting to think the essential oils industry is like the tabloids. They just make stuff up and you can find all the contradictions you want.

Take Chamomile oil:

It is supposed to be an anti-flammatory, yet it also strengthens the immune system. That seems to me like a contradiction. So if I apply it to my scalp, will the immune system gather there, or leave there?

It seems like they say it will cure everything, and then oops, they put a few contradictions in there.

 

[CCS]

7. Immune Stimulant: British researchers discovered that the herb stimulated the immune system’s infection-fighting white blood cells. Make sure to have a drink or two of this herb when you have a cold or the flu.


so I just wasted $16.


it is just snake oil. probably good for some stuff, but they add 50 other things so other people will buy it.


now the Boswellia most certainly claims to be an immuno suppressant. no contradictions. and widely used by people with joint problems or lupus, and fewer side effects and higher potency than many drugs.


i wonder if the rosemary is BS too. I'll let you know soon.

 

[H/B]

College, you may want to look at the Blue Camomile oil. it s of a totally different species. It is Blue from Azulene, an antiinflammatory

 

[CCS]

thanks. I'll look into the blue specifically.

the one I looked into already said it is an anti-inflammatory, but also stimulates the immune system.

And rosemary does too, according to some herbal sites. even though it is also an anti-inflammatory.

just shows the word must have many definitions.

----

Anyway, check this out:

http://www.yourwholenutrition.com/readon.asp?id=75
http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyI ... s_A-B.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leukotriene

the stuff can prevent the synthesis of a molecule that breaks down fatty acids. That is nice but does not matter too much. The molecule that breaks them down also is the key player in a pathway that makes stuff that attracts immune cells to attack.

cells make that stuff and send it out so the immune system knows to go there. This herb can stop that to varying degrees depending on dose. Drugs that fight athsma do the same thing. Athsma is the chronic inflammation of the lungs, and involves the immune system. This herb has almost no side effects other than keeping the immune system from responding as well. Many lupus and arthritis people take it. It does not work the way asprin does, which wears off eventually. This stuff has been studied and used for centuries. Well, used for centuries, and studies 3 or 4 times in the last 2 decades.

It is cheap. I plan to use a low dose on my head. Not enough to shut down all defenses, hopefully, but enough to calm the immune system down a bit around the follicles.

Just keep in mind the pores are where all the bad stuff gets into the skin. so that is where the cells will congregate even if you don't have male pattern baldness.

I'll use that and borage seed oil as anti-inflamatories. GTE as my androgen receptor blocker/5ar blocker, and grapseed/apple poly/minoxidil as growth stimulants. And nizoral 1% EOD and lef.org NANO EOD.

I hope SOD will have the same effect as the tri-amino copper complex. It is cheap enough.

 

[CCS]

http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/health ... wellia.htm

at least this says the stuff is decently credible. all the essential oils got low ratings. they probably don't do anything except smell good.

 

[bolshy]

For me it's not so much how reliable the site is re.oils, it's about the process they use to extract it.

I'm very keen on both expeller expressed, unfiltered, organic flax and borage oil, but I wouldnt consider taking the flax unless I was assured of a high Lignan measure. There is a lot of crap talked about flax by people trying to sell their own stuff. Please read the extract below.

As for borage, well i've been using topically for 10 days now and I've got 2quick wins...1. total eradication of irritation of my minoxidil irritated scalp, with associated raging flaking scalp and 2. a tremendous reduction in the greasiness of my hair (typically by 6pm on any day my hair looks greasy).

Still believe that I may get further beneifts from the borage but time will tell.

Lignans have been shown to block the action of the enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT.1 Lignans may also reduce the amount of testosterone available for the body to use. In the average male, only a small amount of testosterone roams free in the blood. Most testosterone is bound to a protein called SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin). People who consume large amounts of lignans have been shown to have increased blood levels of SHBG.2 An increase in SHBG leaves less testosterone available to stimulate prostate cell growth.

In other studies researchers have found that lignan concentrations are higher in the prostate fluid of men with a lower risk of prostate cancer than those at increased risk.3 In a more recent study, 25 prostate cancer patients were given a low-fat diet plus flaxseed. At the end of the study, the men had a reduction in testosterone levels, lower rates of cancer cell growth and a trend towards lower prostate specific antigen (PSA) levels.4 The study was done with whole flaxseed, so the authors couldn't determine how much of the effect was due to lignans. Therefore they conducted another study using lignans derived from flaxseed. Results showed that the lignans inhibited the growth of human prostate cancer cells in a test tube.5 This supports the idea that lignans are protective against prostate cancer.

While it is too early to say that eating flaxseed and its lignans will reduce the risk of prostate cancer and BPH, evidence is pointing in that direction. By reducing male hormones that fuel BPH and prostate cancer growth, lignans might help reduce prostate size, alleviate symptoms of BPH and protect against prostate cancer

1.Evans, B. A. J., Griffiths, K., Morton, M. S., J Endocrinol (1995). Vol. 147 pp. 295–302
2. Adlercreutz, H., Hockerstedt, K., Bannwart, C. et al. J Steroid Biochem (1987). Vol. 27 pp. 1135–44
3. Morton, M. S., Matos-Ferreira, A., Abranches-Monteiro, L. et al. Cancer Letters (1997). Vol. 114 pp. 145–51.
4. Demark-Wahnefried, W., Price, D. T., Polascik, T. J., Robertson, C.N., et al. Urology (2001). Vol. 58 pp. 47–52.
5. Lin, S., Switzer, B. R., Demark-Wahnefried, W. Anticancer Research (2001). Vol. 21 pp. 3995–4000.

 

[Harie]

Could you just add Boswellia Serrata to minoxidil instead of making a seperate vehicle?

Say, add 1 - 2 grams of Boswellia Serrata to a bottle of minoxidil?

 

[CCS]

Could you just add Boswellia Serrata to minoxidil instead of making a seperate vehicle?

Say, add 1 - 2 grams of Boswellia Serrata to a bottle of minoxidil?

yes, you could. the only reason i'm not is i don't want to run the risk of it reacting with the minoxidil. I also have many other things, like apple poly and grapes seed extract that i'm applying. i doubt the last two will react with minoxidil. It kind of is guess work. I will look at the functional groups of caffine and spironolactone and try to figure out which ones are reacting with minoxdil.

yeah, but the stuff is very cheap, and has more backing than these smell good essential oils, so i'm going to give it a try.

 

[CCS]

bolsy,

thanks for the GLA info, and the flax info. I eat 4 table spoons of ground flaxseed per day, but I don't want to add flaxseed oil to my scalp because I heard ALA can cause inflamation, and flax seed oil is 59% ALA, bonded of course.

i have started adding borage seed oil to my minoxidil because you said it is anti-inflammatory. also, I think it will cancel out any damage that ethanol does. I'm also going to start taking 1g of borage seed oil daily, not for my hair, but just for my health.