Antifungals and astringents, and the relation of Androgenetic Alopecia to acne

[Hoppi]

Hey dudes

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time.

I believe that Androgenetic Alopecia is caused by excess sebum (caused by excess DHT) which then becomes infected usually by a fungal strain (hence why most with Androgenetic Alopecia have dandruff).

I believe it is then this INFECTION which kills the hair.

If you don't agree then that's fine, but really this thread is for people who do agree with that, so if you're just here to bash then please leave now and go to a more conventional part of the forum.

For the record, this is interesting:

...in 2007 it was discovered that the responsible agent is a scalp specific fungus, Malassezia globosa,[14] that metabolizes triglycerides present in sebum by the expression of lipase, resulting in a lipid byproduct oleic acid (OA). During dandruff, the levels of Malassezia increase by 1.5 to 2 times its normal level.[2] Penetration by OA of the top layer of the epidermis, the stratum corneum, results in an inflammatory response in susceptible persons which disturbs homeostasis and results in erratic cleavage of stratum corneum cells.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandruff#Causes
(also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malassezia)

That's interesting, isn't it? So apparently this fungus uses lipase to metabolise the sebum fat, essentially.

Therefore we are presented with three potential solutions, if we are hoping to tackle this after the actions of DHT.

1) Decrease sebum, such as with an astringent like witch hazel

2) Kill the fungus, such as with an antifungal like coconut oil

3) Possibly decreasing lipase in the scalp, reducing the fungus' ability to feed on sebum. Seems a sloppy solution but it could still work.


Any views on this? Again, please don't just bash. If you don't agree, fine, but I'd rather keep this thread for people who do agree with it or are at least genuinely open-minded to it.

Thanks,

Hoppi

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Weirdly, Candida albicans (which I've long suspected to be the cause of my health woes) also is capable of breaking down lipids for food:

Some lipases are expressed and secreted by pathogenic organisms during the infection. In particular, Candida albicans has a large number of different lipases, possibly reflecting broad lipolytic activity, which may contribute to the persistence and virulence of C. albicans in human tissue.[7]

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipase

 

[resu]

Once the follicles miniaturize the sebaceous glands enlarge and start producing more sebum.

 

[Hoppi]

Once the follicles miniaturize the sebaceous glands enlarge and start producing more sebum.

Well, that's one theory. Highly illogical in my opinion, but definitely a theory!

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I've decided to start using a combination of antifungals daily.

I'll wash my hair 1-2 times a day with shampoos with zinc pyrithione and salicylic acid, and maybe piroctone olamine and/or ketoconazole but they're both more expensive. I'll probably add at least one though.

And also I'll put strong colloidal silver on my scalp 2-4 times a day.

Maybe just going totally nuts on proven antifungals will do the trick!

One of the shampoos has conditioner in it too so that's good as this will probably be quite drying to my scalp.

Oh also, I would focus on ketoconazole more readily but as well as price it's also very drying - it made my scalp very red in the past.

Which... may have been good for bloodflow... but didn't feel good lol

So yeah

 

[IA2015]

How can it be treated from the inside? I can understand coconut oil and such but that is external and wouldn't do much good.

It's the inside that needs focus.

Also this doesn't explain folk with dry skin, dry scalps (non greasy hair etc).

This isn't a dig, I'd be interested to hear your opinions. I like this sort of thing, nobody really thinks outside the box with male pattern baldness.

 

[torturedsoul]

How can it be treated from the inside? I can understand coconut oil and such but that is external and wouldn't do much good. It's the inside that needs focus. Also this doesn't explain folk with dry skin, dry scalps (non greasy hair etc). This isn't a dig, I'd be interested to hear your opinions. I like this sort of thing, nobody really thinks outside the box with male pattern baldness.

Well things put into the skin penetrate inside for a couple mm, otherwise minoxidil would be useless I have coconut oil, it was pretty ****ing expensive, no wait it was actually castor oil.. whatever, the thing was so damn oily, i barely used it, i still got it, i dont know, all those just do nothing to me. Im still on keto 2% twice a week a alternate it with a salycidic acid based shampoo. I've got all those ingrowth hairs sometimes, it's pretty annoying. Im on topical finasteride and minoxidil, which helped me to decrease a bit my male pattern baldness itch but its still happening, i cant fully get rid of the dreaded "male pattern baldness itch", and my hair is still failing, i see some new hairs on the templesbut i dont have much hope because im seeing a lot of less hair everywhere else. I am a tortured soul. Im even considering starting 0.5 oral EOD, im this crazy about MBP and the itch as well, i want a ****ing cure.

 

[Hoppi]

Complete nonsensical BS.

I bet you're still a solid NW1.5 Hoppi.

It's time you accept you don't have male pattern baldness and suffer from a strong case of obsessive disorder.

You've been rambling about this candida nonsense since 2010 now. Some people don't ever seem to learn.

You're not a scientist, and you will never find a cure for male pattern baldness in your basement.

Get over it.

And for the other members: don't encourage him. Look at this thread he made in 2010 where he says he cured male pattern baldness:

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/46555-I-think-I-ve-just-cured-it

The guy clearly has issues.

If anyone has issues here it's you.

I still remember when you used to be a nice guy. What happened?

 

[Hoppi]

Reality and a slick shiny NW5 despite trying BS natural remedies happened.

Well I'm sorry to hear that. But "natural remedies" (or rather I would say "alternative remedies") is just as broad if not broader a category as pharmaceutical drugs. On top of that you have dosage and so on.

So I'm sorry that trying them didn't work for you but that's no good reason to come here and bash my very reasonable thread and me as a person. So please calm down.

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If that was the case, then no one would suffer from hair loss.. Its way more complex than that. From dht to pgd2, i've been overloading my head with information ever since i joined this site and told everyone that i would cure my baldness "naturally." Again, now i've learned that there is A LOT to male pattern baldness and hairloss.. while i am still going to fix my diet and nourish my body with all the nutrients and vitamins i need, its probably best to hop on big three. It's not as simple as putting coconut oil on your head to get rid of an infection..

Actually if you look on Earth Clinic there are a lot of success stories with coconut oil and apple cider vinegar for hair loss.

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How can it be treated from the inside? I can understand coconut oil and such but that is external and wouldn't do much good.

It's the inside that needs focus.

Also this doesn't explain folk with dry skin, dry scalps (non greasy hair etc).

This isn't a dig, I'd be interested to hear your opinions. I like this sort of thing, nobody really thinks outside the box with male pattern baldness.

I've heard very few if any tales of people with male pattern baldness not having excess sebum production.

Some apparently don't have dandruff, but I would imagine that there are different organisms that can infect sebum.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Correction infection causes INFLAMMATION which can influence the health of the hair follicle. Most inflammation is autoimmune in nature not infectious. Honestly bacterial and fungal infections are not as common as viral. And as far as the hair follicle, most people are not going to be exposed to virus, fungus, nor bacteria unless they never wash their hair. You need to focus on the auto immune aspect of hair loss not the infectious component. Most inflammatory issues of our body tend to be cause by noninfectious sources. Dr Proctor's formulas tend to address all these issues so its already been done. However, don't expect it to be a cure because its not. If anything focus on INFLAMMATION instead of infection if you want to help yourself. Ever notice why so many drugs that are ANTI-INFLAMMATORY like Humira also help with other auto immune problems like alopecia areata. Develop something natural that mimics Humira and you might be on to something.