Anyone see results with spironolactone?

[helpmyhair]

I just can't take finasteride as I cannot deal with the sides so I'm looking for another way to maintain.

Has anyone had any luck with spironolactone? did you feel like you were getting results.. or maintenance?

Did you experience any sides with it?


thanks

 

[helpmyhair]

anybody?

 

[Quantum Cat]

what is spironolactone? do you have a link to it?

 

[Jm0311]

I have been on spironolactone for the last 7 or 8 months and I do not see my temples maintaining.

 

[casperz]

what is spironolactone? do you have a link to it?

Spironolactone. It's a anti-androgen. Some take it orally and some
use it mixed as a topical. It happens to reduce Testosterone
levels to ZERO if taken orally, not something you want to happen as
a man. Transsexuals use it to feminize their bodies. I think everyone
that has taken it here has had to stop six moths to a year later
becuase of the problems caused by low T.

Topically I believe there has been some success with little if
any side effects.

 

[neis]

I was seriously thinking to add oral spironolactone to my regimen to see if it make any difference. It really doesn't mind me if I may experience feminizing effects (gynecomastia) and loss of libido. The reason that I don't make the move to it, it's because it's side effect to lower the blood pressure may have a reaction with xandrox(minoxidil) which works by increasing the blood pressure(which is opposite), so oral spironolactone may decrease the effectiveness of minoxidil.

 

[helpmyhair]

I guess I should have clarified when asking if anyone's seen results. I meant with topical use.

 

[CCS]

Kielmick saw benefits. He was on oral finasteride though. He got great benefits from everything he used. But he is rich and dumps lots of topicals on his head 2 hours before his shower, and then washes them all off. If you buy lee's spironolactone, and dab 1mL through your hair, I doubt you will get the same benefits as someone who applies a lot more.

Most people agree topical spironolactone helps, but may be half as effective as propecia, if you cover all your scalp. The places that are not covered will continue to thin at the same rate.

If you can't tolerate propecia, I would definitely give topical spironolactone a go. But your results will be worse than oral propecia.

 

[CCS]

yeah, and anti-androgens do not cause huge regrowth. They do cause some regrowth, but are best for stopping loss. Anti-inflammatories and growth stimulants will give you the most regrowth.

 

[Bryan]

Spironolactone. It's a anti-androgen. Some take it orally and some use it mixed as a topical. It happens to reduce Testosterone levels to ZERO if taken orally...

Huh?? Not unless you take about a POUND of it every day! The small oral doses taken by some spironolactone enthusiasts (25-50 mg/day) for male pattern baldness aren't going to have any really significant effect on testosterone levels. In fact, for all we know, they may actually slightly INCREASE them, thanks to the antiandrogenic effect.

 

[casperz]

Huh?? Not unless you take about a POUND of it every day! The small oral doses taken by some spironolactone enthusiasts (25-50 mg/day) for male pattern baldness aren't going to have any really significant effect on testosterone levels. In fact, for all we know, they may actually slightly INCREASE them, thanks to the antiandrogenic effect.

I agree with 99.9% of what you post Bryan, but I have to
disagree with you on this based on what I've read on
a few sites/forums dedicated to transsexuals. Those sites have a lot
of info and personal experience with the use of spironolactone to reduce T.

I found a couple of things, number one everyone is different as
far as what dose it takes to reduce T to female ranges. And the
dose for some can be as small as 50mg/day and up to 400mg/day.
I found that most transsexuals are able to reduce their
testosterone levels to female ranges and some even to zero
with a standard dosage of 200mg day. They feel like crap
at zero T... but I think the thought is less is more for them.

I can go back through my browsing history and locate
some sites/forums but they were fairly easy to find as I recall.
These were not studies, just transsexuals sharing knowledge
and actual blood test results.

The bottom line for me is that even at 50mg/day some
transsexuals are able to basically become a female as far as
T levels were concerned.

And believe me... if I thought oral spironolactone would not reduce my
T I'd be on it... hell I need one more thing. LOL.

LOL... I'll wait for you to post your many study's that show I'm totally wrong

 

[Bryan]

I found a couple of things, number one everyone is different as far as what dose it takes to reduce T to female ranges. And the dose for some can be as small as 50mg/day and up to 400mg/day.

Only 50 mg/day causing a reduction in T to female levels???? WOW!!!!! I'd have to see some SERIOUS evidence for that, before I could believe it!

The bottom line for me is that even at 50mg/day some transsexuals are able to basically become a female as far as T levels were concerned.

Oh Gawd...I really find that hard to believe.

LOL... I'll wait for you to post your many study's that show I'm totally wrong

How about that study from Greece in which four individuals (two men, and two women) took 200 mg/day of oral spironolactone for hair loss, and found favorable effects on their hair? They were carefully monitored, and the doctors said there were no significant effects on their blood parameters (testosterone, etc.).

 

[casperz]

I goggled "spironolactone reduce testosterone" and
all these sites show dosages of 100mg to 200mg/day to
reduce T levels to female ranges. If you want to search further,
google "transsexual forum" and read posts by transsexuals on
50mg of spironolactone and their reduction in T levels proven via blood
tests. No studies, just first person accounts of spironolactone use and
how it affects them. You can choose to believe them or not but
I don't see where they have any reason to lie about it. For me
50mg a day was not worth the risk since there were many sites
that said after six months the results from spironolactone become
permanent.

http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/hormonal/hormone-tx_assch_gooren.htm

http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/regimens.html

http://www.hamiltonlove.com/8course.htm

 

[Bryan]

I goggled "spironolactone reduce testosterone" and all these sites show dosages of 100mg to 200mg/day to
reduce T levels to female ranges.

http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/hormonal/hormone-tx_assch_gooren.htm

http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/regimens.html

http://www.hamiltonlove.com/8course.htm

Where does it say at those sites that 100-200 mg/day of spironolactone reduces T levels to female ranges? I didn't read every word of those three sites, but I did do a search for the word "spironolactone" at all three, and located and read every mention of it. I don't see anything backing-up your claim on any of them. Please copy and post the SPECIFIC passages that you think support your claim.

 

[Administrator]

Test

Hello

 

[Bryan]

If you want to search further,
google "transsexual forum" and read posts by transsexuals on
50mg of spironolactone and their reduction in T levels proven via blood
tests. No studies, just first person accounts of spironolactone use and
how it affects them. You can choose to believe them or not but
I don't see where they have any reason to lie about it.

Can you narrow the search down considerably so I don't have to go plowing through tons of material, looking for posts about spironolactone? It would be best of all if you could just copy/paste some of their claims, along with the links.

BTW, I'm still waiting for your response to my previous post on the issue of your claim about such small amounts of oral spironolactone having such an alleged dramatic effect on testosterone levels.

 

[hairrific]

How can there be "no significant effects on their blood parameters testosterone, etc." yet find favorable effects on their hair?

How does spironolactone. get results if not reducing test?

 

[Bryan]

How can there be "no significant effects on their blood parameters testosterone, etc." yet find favorable effects on their hair?

How does spironolactone. get results if not reducing test?

By blocking androgen receptors. spironolactone is an antiandrogen. That's why people use it to fight male pattern baldness.

My best guess (and that's all it is, just a guess) as to why they didn't notice any significant changes in testosterone levels is that at that level of spironolactone intake (200 mg/day), the test subjects were sort of "balanced" between the testosterone RAISING effect of spironolactone's antiandrogenic property, and the testosterone LOWERING effect of spironolactone's ability to interfere with testosterone synthesis.

This is just speculation, of course. It would be interesting to see the actual clinical effect on blood testosterone from a wide range of different spironolactone intakes, so we don't have to guess and speculate about all this.

 

[casperz]

Where does it say at those sites that 100-200 mg/day of spironolactone reduces T levels to female ranges?

When I posted that it was not a be all end all list of PROOF that
what I was saying was correct. Those site do not say it specifically
but if you search more in depth you will find posts of blood test
results in the transsexual forums and websites. Just google spironolactone
for "spironolactone blood test testosterone" or "spironolactone testosterone" or "spironolactone
hrt".

What I recall in reading all those reports was that spironolactone works
differently on people and some transsexuals are able to reduce
there testosterone levels to female levels with 50mg day. I
remember reading that on more than one occasion. Here are
some links I did find today:

http://community.livejournal.com/mtf/581482.html

First post, 23y/o transsexual 200mg/day testosterone went from 950 to 158. Second poster 300mg/day T level is 20. Further down in the post 100mg/day T level was 30.

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthr ... spironolactone+50mg

Post indicates "50mg/day to reduce my T levels to 3"

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthr ... spironolactone+50mg

"I read of transsexual women getting testosterone levels in the
female range with doses ranging from 100-200mg daily."

There are tons of these types of reports. If you care to search
further you will find many more. I remember a yahoo group for
transsexuals that had a lot of information, I tried searching for
it but could not remember the name.

I researched this for a number of days and considered taking spironolactone
but after reading about the changes in T levels I decided it was
not for me.

Like I said before Bryan I respect your knowledge and agree with
about 99.9% of what you post, but this time first hand accounts
I've read elsewhere does not match what you are saying. I don't
really want to argue, everyone is free to believe what they want. I
believe based on reading reports like shown above that even small
doses of spironolactone reduces testosterone significantly.

 

[Bryan]

Where does it say at those sites that 100-200 mg/day of spironolactone reduces T levels to female ranges?

When I posted that it was not a be all end all list of PROOF that what I was saying was correct.

Well, you're certainly right about THAT, Casperz. In fact, those sites said nothing AT ALL about the effect of spironolactone on T levels. I'm baffled as to why you went to the trouble of posting those first three links in the first place.

What I recall in reading all those reports was that spironolactone works differently on people and some transsexuals are able to reduce there testosterone levels to female levels with 50mg day. I remember reading that on more than one occasion. Here are some links I did find today:

http://community.livejournal.com/mtf/581482.html

First post, 23y/o transsexual 200mg/day testosterone went from 950 to 158. Second poster 300mg/day T level is 20. Further down in the post 100mg/day T level was 30.

Casperz, come on man, those people were taking various other drugs IN ADDITION to the spironolactone! That queers the results, keeping us from being to draw any valid conclusions about what effect low doses of spironolactone have on T levels. For example, that first one who went from the 750s (even she/he thought the 950 was a fluke) to 158 was also taking ESTROGEN and MEDROXYPROGESTERONE!! Are you aware that medroxyprogesterone is also used for chemical castration in rapists and pedophiles?? :freaked:

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7709&highlight=spironolactone+50mg

Post indicates "50mg/day to reduce my T levels to 3"

LOL! I don't believe that, at all. There was probably a major problem with the blood test. (BTW, faulty blood tests are by no means a rare event.) And what other drug(s) was he taking at the same time?

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10188&highlight=spironolactone+50mg

"I read of transsexual women getting testosterone levels in the
female range with doses ranging from 100-200mg daily."

Yeah, along with what OTHER drugs and hormones? Various estrogens and progestins?

Like I said before Bryan I respect your knowledge and agree with about 99.9% of what you post, but this time first hand accounts I've read elsewhere does not match what you are saying. I don't really want to argue, everyone is free to believe what they want. I believe based on reading reports like shown above that even small doses of spironolactone reduces testosterone significantly.

I still haven't seen any valid scientific evidence to support that theory. The anecdotes you cited above are mildly interesting, but they're obviously flawed and inconclusive because of all the other drugs that those individuals also take. Furthermore, they are directly contradicted by that Greek study I told you about, which found no significant changes in testosterone levels in test subjects taking 200 mg/day of spironolactone for hair loss.

I want to emphasize again to all the readers here there's no question at all that LARGE DOSES of spironolactone can definitely lower testosterone levels; the only question is what happens at LOW doses. It's not completely out of the question that low doses might actually raise testosterone levels a little, which is the normal response to antiandrogens ("pure" ones, anyway).