Attention 'experts'

[Skaff]

They say people fear what they don't understand so I set about trying to find out more about finasteride-related side effects and why they occur. So here are my very simplistic explanations. Please take a look and make corrections, add more detail or whatever...

No side effects:
Subject takes finasteride > DHT production reduced > testosterone spikes to compensate, still within normal range > testosterone levels off to about 10% above base line (still in normal range) > subject feels normal.

Gyno, low libido, thin skin/wrinkles, loss of energy, possible depression:
Subject takes finasteride > DHT production reduced > testosterone spikes to compensate, outside of normal range > excess testosterone converted to estrogen > patient experiences side effects.

Acne:
Subject takes finasteride > DHT production reduced > testosterone spikes to compensate, high end of normal range > skin sensitive to testosterone > sebum production increases > subject experiences excess oil/acne > testosterone levels off > subject's skin returns to normal.

OK...that's pretty much all I've got so far. I know it's all over-simplified but does it sound about right?

 

[Skaff]

Actually I think this gives a better explanation...for man boobs, at least.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

 

[Felk]

Test. levels never "level off"

The increase in testosterone production is a permanent change.

 

[Skaff]

Test. levels never "level off"

The increase in testosterone production is a permanent change.

But it spikes early on then settles down to about 10% above your baseline levels

 

[Bryan]

Test. levels never "level off"

The increase in testosterone production is a permanent change.

But it spikes early on then settles down to about 10% above your baseline levels

Where did you get THAT idea?

Bryan

 

[Felk]

Test. levels never "level off"

The increase in testosterone production is a permanent change.

But it spikes early on then settles down to about 10% above your baseline levels

Where did you get THAT idea?

Bryan

Hehehe this one appears to be one of those hard myths to stamp out :wink:

 

[bubka]

testosterone does quickly "spike" up 10% right after starting the first few pills, but remains about 10% higher, though this is still within normal range...

yes, lower libido and possoble gyno, other sides are not reported in fda tests, except here...

acne had not been proven, i would say most people say it has improved skin, though that means nothing

as for wrinkles, not that this means anything, but i have been on it for over 6 years, 27, and people say i look 22

 

[MPBWarrior]

my skin and acne r certainly better since going on finasteride

 

[Bryan]

Test. levels never "level off"

The increase in testosterone production is a permanent change.

But it spikes early on then settles down to about 10% above your baseline levels

Where did you get THAT idea?

Bryan

Hehehe this one appears to be one of those hard myths to stamp out :wink:

Hey, I may have to add something about that to my signature file, along with the other common myths!

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

testosterone does quickly "spike" up 10% right after starting the first few pills, but remains about 10% higher, though this is still within normal range...

Bubka, where did you ever hear such a claim? If necessary, I can dig-up a lengthy finasteride review article by Rittmaster in which he made the statement that in one test, it actually took a few months (I hope I'm remembering this correctly) before testosterone levels gradually started increasing with finasteride use. I personally have never seen anything indicating that there's a sudden "spike" in testosterone after taking just a few pills, but I'll believe it if you can provide some scientific evidence for it.

Bryan

 

[bubka]

i have graphs from 1 or 2 studies of men who took finasteride before prostate surgery to see the effects internally on the tissue, it was very conclusive of the change, even within 24 hours of a single dose of finasteride had on testosterone

updated, here:

 

[Bryan]

Yes, but we're talking about SERUM testosterone. The first two of those graphs were for prostate levels of testosterone. I'm not sure about the third one (it's a little hard to read), but it appears to be serum T. And even then, you can see a sloooooow upward trend of T over a period of months, which probably isn't even statistically significant, judging by the confidence bars in the graph.

Bryan

 

[bubka]

OK, yeah serum, but what about epithelial tissue, especially the scalp, any study on that, i mean thats what we should really be looking at

 

[Bryan]

Nah, there's no similar study for scalp tissue, so I guess we're in a Mexican standoff!

Bryan

 

[Skaff]

bubka...could you post the link to the full article?
Cheers

 

[bubka]

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/con ... t/12/6/372

as for serum testosterone (T), this is the same as free testosterone?? and T needs carrier proteins (like most most sterols) to move in the blood, which there is a set finite amount...

and if i understand the physiology correctly, finasteride stops the conversion of T to DHT within the cell, so thus the major change is in the cells and thus tissue, so i would assume scalp would be similar here to the prostate... with an increase in T in the scalp greatly, and a direct correlated drop off in DHT

and it is the feedback mechanism which gradually does result in the slower increase in the blood, as there is only so many carrier proteins, which result in the buildup in the cells of T, not the blood...

 

[Paul December]

Hey Skaff,
I notice you keep posting about skin issues. I can't find anything (other than your posts) to substantiate it. Please post specifically what you know.

 

[Skaff]

Hey Skaff,
I notice you keep posting about skin issues. I can't find anything (other than your posts) to substantiate it. Please post specifically what you know.

My GP scared me off finasteride by making it sound like my skin would end up worse than my hair...acne etc. But I can't say I've found any evidence to support that apart from a few anecdotes here and there... which is nice

 

[MPBWarrior]

my skin's certainly improved since starting on finasteride.