borageseed oil soap? (cheaper and less messy than revivogen)

[CCS]

Revivogen vials are better, but cost an arm and a leg. What about a bar of pH 7 borageseed oil soap? Lots of free fatty acids. One of these natural places has to sell it, and I'm sure a bar costs less than revivogen. I'd wash my hair with it every 3rd day. And my face too.

anyone know of any sites that would carry that?


Just so you all know, GLA and some other free fatty acids seem to inhibit 5ar. Not sure if it is 1 or 2, or if it inhibits the production of 5ar, or the 5ar itself. I'm hoping the 5ar itself, since that would make it synergistic, rather than competitive, with finasteride. And those free fatty acids are good for your skin, too.

 

[CCS]

I'm all about regimens that are easy to maintain. And shampoo takes no effort at all.

 

[holly]

Would taking supplements orally like borage seed, evening primrose, and black currant oil do any good? That Revivogen is messy!

 

[CCS]

no, not really. Well, your body might get some of the GLA up to your scalp. Probably better than nothing. But not as good as revivogen.

 

[CCS]

I think this is a really good idea. Too bad no one is helping me figure out how to make it.

Soap is just a bunch of free fatty acids that are attracted to sodium ions. The charged ends let them mix into water, while the polar ends let them grab oils. I'm sure modern soap is not like this, though. Old soap is made with lye and fat. I just don't know exactly how to do it and ran into problems last time.

People complain about revivogen being so greasy. Yet it inhibits both types of 5ar locally and must be healthy stuf with all those fatty acids. You would not have to have greese in your hair all day. Just wash, leave in 5 minutes, and rinse, but not so thuroughly. It would also get rid of acne and body hair and big pores.

A gallon is $120. But you can cut it with flaxseed oil, which is 1/3 the price, and has ALA, LNA, oleic acid. I'd shoot for pH 7 or even 6.5. You'd have 95% as sodium bonded and 5% as straight fatty acids.

You could get avodart effects on your scalp, and not take avodart. Cheap (a gallon turned to soap would last years), and not a hassel. To make a regimen work, it must not be a hassel.

 

[KiLLuMiNaTi]

colledgechemistrystudent if all this was true you would be a millionare by now..

 

[Bryan]

What about a bar of pH 7 borageseed oil soap? Lots of free fatty acids....Soap is just a bunch of free fatty acids that are attracted to sodium ions.

Dang...that's quite a curve-ball you've thrown there, CCS. I'm not really sure, but I have some doubt whether the sodium or potassium salts of those fatty acids would have the same 5a-reductase-inhibiting properties as the free fatty acids themselves. I need to check those studies again, and see if they've ever been tested that way.

 

[Old Baldy]

CCS: Read this entire link. Good info. IMHO. http://waltonfeed.com/old/soaphome.html

Here's the basic way I make my soaps. Hot processed method. Quicker. No cure time.

http://www.zensoaps.com/hpsoap.htm

Making soap is easy once you know what you're doing but it is alot harder than making creams and lotions IMHO. You have to be pretty exact with your oil, water and lye ratios. (Especially with the hot processed method.)

You might just use the more common cold processed method. It is easier to make but you have to let it cure for a month.

I've never read that fatty acids in this type of soap would work the same as a true free fatty acid.

However, these types of homemade oil soaps are WAY easier on the skin and leave your hair MUCH softer than store bought stuff IMHO.

People always complain about chapped hands in the winter where I live. With these homemade soaps I never have chapped hands in the winter.

I've been using them for years and still ended up as a Norwood 5 by the time I was fifty though. :cry: :-x

Use this lye calculator:
http://www.thesage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php

You might want to mix borage oil with some coconut oil to make a harder bar. Just do some reading, it will come to you.

 

[CCS]

What about a bar of pH 7 borageseed oil soap? Lots of free fatty acids....Soap is just a bunch of free fatty acids that are attracted to sodium ions.

Dang...that's quite a curve-ball you've thrown there, CCS. I'm not really sure, but I have some doubt whether the sodium or potassium salts of those fatty acids would have the same 5a-reductase-inhibiting properties as the free fatty acids themselves. I need to check those studies again, and see if they've ever been tested that way.

At pH 7, carboxilic acids (pKa of 5) are 1% fatty acids, and 99% ions with sodium floating nearby. At pH 6, they are 10% fatty acids. Add more hydrochloric acid, and you get 50-50 at pH 5, and 90% fatty acids at pH4. Also at lower pH's, you get less surfactant.

In water, the sodium ion goes off free, and the negative fatty acid steals a hydrogen from water, leaving an OH- in solution. That is why soap is a weak base.

If I could just make soap (which I've been unsuccessful at before), I could then add hydrochloric acid and put the fatty acid into my shampoo at 5%. The only reason I'd put them in shampoo is so they'd get spread around better. It would be better to apply them right after rinsing out the shampoo, and let them sit for 10 minutes, then wash out, but they are difficult to spread in low doses.

 

[CCS]

thanks for the links OB.

 

[Jacob]

How about Cernilton GBX

"GLC analyses of the fat-soluble pollen extract revealed that the major part (more than 60%) of the fatty acid was in the free form (Table 1, Fig. 1). Bound fatty acids, which rather reflect the compositional profile of pollen, were characterized by a high content of a-linolenic acid (18: 3n-3, a-LLA) (70%) followed by small amounts of linoleic (18: 2n-6) and oleic acid (181n-9) only. Palmitic acid (16:0) was the most abundant saturated"

http://www.graminex.com/clinical_studies/study20.php

There is a site somewhere out there where it's sold in bulk.

 

[bubka]

i thought this was a joke at first...

 

[Bryan]

At pH 7, carboxilic acids (pKa of 5) are 1% fatty acids, and 99% ions with sodium floating nearby. At pH 6, they are 10% fatty acids. Add more hydrochloric acid, and you get 50-50 at pH 5, and 90% fatty acids at pH4. Also at lower pH's, you get less surfactant.

In water, the sodium ion goes off free, and the negative fatty acid steals a hydrogen from water, leaving an OH- in solution. That is why soap is a weak base.

All that may well be true, but I still think all bets are off when you lather up and apply it to your scalp, and hope that the (free?) fatty acids make it into hair follicle cells. God knows what happens at that point.