BREAKTHROUGH - ORAL KETOCONAZOLE

[stnl]

look at the one that youngbaldy posted - ORAL KETOCONAZOLE -

1) REDUCES TESTOSTRONE PRODUCTION

2) HAS SHORT HALF LIFE

3) INHIBITS DHT BINDING TO PROTEIN RECEPTORS

 

[michael barry]

it also has an affinity for androgen receptors, so it would be like taking flutamide and you would get the same side effects (as a man) that transexuals taking flutamide get--------tits, big hips, no libido, nausea, diarreaha, stomach upset, loss of muscle mass............turn into a girl in other words.

 

[youngbaldie]

Michael, this may be a dumb question, but I was wondering if you had any input.

Is there any way to make a ketoconazole topical? What I mean is, all of the current shampoos or ointments are only 2% at most.

Would there be a way of formulating a much more potent topical with ketoconazole tablets?

 

[Cassin]

stnl,...no more of these threads please.

 

[michael barry]

youngbaldie wrote:

Michael, this may be a dumb question, but I was wondering if you had any input.

Is there any way to make a ketoconazole topical? What I mean is, all of the current shampoos or ointments are only 2% at most.

Would there be a way of formulating a much more potent topical with ketoconazole tablets?



sure, Im sure there would. They have keto creams available online at various places.

 

[youngbaldie]

I have seen some creams online but I cant find anything higher than 2% of keto.

Strange isnt it? Remember those photos of the cream that was 2%? Pretty excellent regrowth and thickening. Imagine if it was like 90% keto in some customized topical. Do you think there would be bad side effects or too much systematic absorption?

 

[elguapo]

So why do you think they only went as high as 2% then?

 

[Newbaldy84]

This is exciting. yeah we need more % KETOCONAZOLE topical.

 

[CCS]

this is dumb. you guys are getting excited over nothing. I posted my rebuttal. But he keeps making new threads everywhere.

 

[IBM]

stnl you're fantasizing with a solution that have no success stories.

 

[IDOASIS]

stnl you're fantasizing with a solution that have no success stories.

Because no one have used that kind of solution.
The research findings are quite promising

 

[IBM]

stnl you're fantasizing with a solution that have no success stories.

Because no one have used that kind of solution.
The research findings are quite promising

His research findings?

 

[docj077]

stnl you're fantasizing with a solution that have no success stories.

Because no one have used that kind of solution.
The research findings are quite promising

No, not really. Oral Ketoconazole shuts down sex hormone synthesis. You CAN NOT use this treatment long term, so it doesn't really matter.

This has been discussed on the forum before. A long time ago.

 

[IDOASIS]

stnl you're fantasizing with a solution that have no success stories.

Because no one have used that kind of solution.
The research findings are quite promising

No, not really. Oral Ketoconazole shuts down sex hormone synthesis. You CAN NOT use this treatment long term, so it doesn't really matter.

This has been discussed on the forum before. A long time ago.

Please read again what I have said.
I have mentioned a topical Keto ,NOT oral!

stnl you're fantasizing with a solution that have no success stories.

Because no one have used that kind of solution.
The research findings are quite promising

His research findings?

IBM , we have small studies indicates ,
topical keto can be very useful treating male pattern baldness.


Nizoral Shampoo study:

KCZ group ,hair count was increased by 40 - 1 square cm ,
meaning 202 hairs - 1 inch diameter.
While hair count in the mino group was increased
only by 30 - 1 square cm, meaning 152 - 1 inch diameter.


2% KCZ lotion:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 5215d61bef

 

[docj077]

Because no one have used that kind of solution.
The research findings are quite promising

No, not really. Oral Ketoconazole shuts down sex hormone synthesis. You CAN NOT use this treatment long term, so it doesn't really matter.

This has been discussed on the forum before. A long time ago.

Please read again what I have said.
I have mentioned a topical Keto ,NOT oral!

You didn't mention anything at all. The thread is about oral ketoconazole, so I figured that was what you were talking about. No where in your response do you mention oral vs. topical.

Besides, topical ketoconazole is a terrible idea, as well. There is a reason that companies that produce shampoos with ketoconazole only recommend their use a few times per week. The chance of hypersensitivity and adverse outcome is far too high. Plus, people now want to use a higher concentration?!?! Idiocy at best.

 

[IDOASIS]

You didn't mention anything at all. The thread is about oral ketoconazole, so I figured that was what you were talking about. No where in your response do you mention oral vs. topical.

Well , you got me wrong.
Again , I have respond IBM post about KCZ solution (if that’s ok by you).
I didn’t refer to oral KCZ at all.

Besides, topical ketoconazole is a terrible idea, as well. There is a reason that companies that produce shampoos with ketoconazole only recommend their use a few times per week. The chance of hypersensitivity and adverse outcome is far too high

Thats not only because the ketoconazle.
Its because Nizoral contains strong inactive
ingredients like, cocamide DEA, disodium laureth sulfosuccinate,
sodium chloride, sodium hydroxide, sodium laureth sulfate


From KCZ cream clinical trials:

http://www.fougera.com/products/documents/1219.PI.pdf

General: If a reaction suggesting sensitivity or chemical irritation should
occur, use of the medication should be discontinued. Hepatitis (1:10,000
reported incidence) and, at high doses, lowered testosterone and ACTH
induced corticosteroid serum levels have been seen with orally adminis-
tered ketoconazole; these effects have not been seen with topical keto-
conazole


Adverse REACTIONS
During clinical trials 45 (5.0%) of 905 patients treated with Ketoconazole
Cream 2% and 5 (2.4%) of 208 patients treated with placebo reported
side effects consisting mainly of severe irritation, pruritus and stinging.
One of the patients treated with Ketoconazole Cream developed a
painful allergic reaction.

matitis: Ketoconazole Cream 2% should be applied to the affected areatwice daily for four weeks or until clinical clearing.If a patient shows no clinical improvement after the treatment period, thediagnosis should be redetermined

Well ,By Fougera the cream should be applied twice a day!!

The adverse events at the KCZ group were a little (5%) higher than the placebo group(2%).



In the mentioned small study ,KCZ 2% lotion was applied everyday for
almost a year , decent results were seen while no adverse effects were reported.

Plus, people now want to use a higher concentration?!?! Idiocy at best

Before you call other people names , please know the facts!

 

[docj077]

Adverse REACTIONS
During clinical trials 45 (5.0%) of 905 patients treated with Ketoconazole
Cream 2% and 5 (2.4%) of 208 patients treated with placebo reported
side effects consisting mainly of severe irritation, pruritus and stinging.
One of the patients treated with Ketoconazole Cream developed a
painful allergic reaction.

matitis: Ketoconazole Cream 2% should be applied to the affected areatwice daily for four weeks or until clinical clearing.If a patient shows no clinical improvement after the treatment period, thediagnosis should be redetermined


Well ,By Fougera the cream should be applied twice a day!!

The adverse events at the KCZ group were a little (5%) higher than the placebo group(2%).



In the mentioned small study ,KCZ 2% lotion was applied everyday for
almost a year , decent results were seen while no adverse effects were reported.

You left out this little recommendation:

"...for four weeks or until clinical clearing."

Nobody likes a smartass. Tell me, how long should you apply ketoconazole in a pt. with male pattern baldness? Until clinical clearing? Well, in that case, it will be completely ineffective as the male pattern baldness will resume. What is the required ketoconazole concentration required in a topical to adequately treat male pattern baldness and give you results that are superior to current FDA recommended therapies? Is topical ketoconazole safe for the scalp for prolonged periods of time? Does topical ketoconazole increase hair count or simply hair diameter?

You're asking people to apply an anti-fungal that is known to cause hypersensitivity reactions for a long duration when it is not even recommended for such a use for an extended period of time. Anti-fungals are not drugs to be screwed around with...ever.

The only topical products that should be recommended for male pattern baldness are products are individually hypo-allergenic when applied topically. Otherwise, you simply feed the fires of one of the many possible aspects of the disease. The immune response.

High doses of ketoconazole in any form are not OTC for a reason.

 

[IDOASIS]

You left out this little recommendation:

"...for four weeks or until clinical clearing."

Nobody likes a smartass. Tell me, how long should you apply ketoconazole in a pt. with male pattern baldness? Until clinical clearing? Well, in that case, it will be completely ineffective as the male pattern baldness will resume. What is the required ketoconazole concentration required in a topical to adequately treat male pattern baldness and give you results that are superior to current FDA recommended therapies? Is topical ketoconazole safe for the scalp for prolonged periods of time? Does topical ketoconazole increase hair count or simply hair diameter?

You're asking people to apply an anti-fungal that is known to cause hypersensitivity reactions for a long duration when it is not even recommended for such a use for an extended period of time. Anti-fungals are not drugs to be screwed around with...ever.

The only topical products that should be recommended for male pattern baldness are products are individually hypo-allergenic when applied topically. Otherwise, you simply feed the fires of one of the many possible aspects of the disease. The immune response.

High doses of ketoconazole in any form are not OTC for a reason.

Well ,nobody likes an arrogant too.
The treatment is recommended for four weeks only because it was tested
for this period of time , usually it is more than enough period to treat the
symptoms .


Propecia FDA trials were only 2 years ,so what you say is ,we
Should all stop using it after this period of time.

Hell ,lets all stop using nizoral shampoo after 4 weeks,
and minoxidil after 4 years.

 

[docj077]

Well ,nobody likes an arrogant too.
The treatment is recommended for four weeks only because it was tested
for this period of time , usually it is more than enough period to treat the
symptoms .


Propecia FDA trials were only 2 years ,so what you say is ,we
Should all stop using it after this period of time.

Hell ,lets all stop using nizoral shampoo after 4 weeks,
and minoxidil after 4 years.

You really don't understand what I'm trying to get at, so I won't even try anymore. Come back and claim victory when you have a study that uses topical ketoconazole at varying concentrations in a controlled study that involves both a control and treatment arm and gives hair density and growth measurements appropriately. Also, we don't know what the did effects of topical ketoconazole are at concentrations that would likely be beneficial to male pattern baldness sufferers.

We have these numbers for finasteride and dutasteride, as well as, minoxidil.

Ketoconazole is not a savior. It's merely bandage. A mickey mouse bandage at that.


And, by the way, the following just makes you look scientifically inept:

"Propecia FDA trials were only 2 years ,so what you say is ,we
Should all stop using it after this period of time.

Hell ,lets all stop using nizoral shampoo after 4 weeks,
and minoxidil after 4 years."

 

[IDOASIS]

You really don't understand what I'm trying to get at, so I won't even try anymore. Come back and claim victory when you have a study that uses topical ketoconazole at varying concentrations in a controlled study that involves both a control and treatment arm and gives hair density and growth measurements appropriately. Also, we don't know what the did effects of topical ketoconazole are at concentrations that would likely be beneficial to male pattern baldness sufferers.

We have these numbers for finasteride and dutasteride, as well as, minoxidil.

Ketoconazole is not a savior. It's merely bandage. A mickey mouse bandage at that.


And, by the way, the following just makes you look scientifically inept:

"Propecia FDA trials were only 2 years ,so what you say is ,we
Should all stop using it after this period of time.

Hell ,lets all stop using nizoral shampoo after 4 weeks,
and minoxidil after 4 years."

Like I have said an arrogant !
And so far you have no reason to be!

I have never said there is that kind of clinical study ,
but we do have studies which indicate ketoconazle 2% is quite effective treating male pattern baldness.
If you choose to be an ignorant its your problem.

Ketoconazole shampoo: effect of long-term use in androgenic alopecia.

Pierard-Franchimont C, De Doncker P, Cauwenbergh G, Pierard GE.

Department of Dermatopathology, University of Liege, Belgium.

BACKGROUND: The pathogenesis of androgenic alopecia is not fully understood. A microbial-driven inflammatory reaction abutting on the hair follicles might participate in the hair status anomaly. OBJECTIVE: The aim of our study was to determine if ketoconazole (KCZ) which is active against the scalp microflora and shows some intrinsic anti-inflammatory activity might improve alopecia. METHOD: The effect of 2% KCZ shampoo was compared to that of an unmedicated shampoo used in combination with or without 2% minoxidil therapy. RESULTS: Hair density and size and proportion of anagen follicles were improved almost similarly by both KCZ and minoxidil regimens. The sebum casual level appeared to be decreased by KCZ. CONCLUSION: Comparative data suggest that there may be a significant action of KCZ upon the course of androgenic alopecia and that Malassezia spp. may play a role in the inflammatory reaction. The clinical significance of the results awaits further controlled study in a larger group of subjects.

Comparative efficacy of various treatment regimens for androgenetic alopecia in men.

Khandpur S, Suman M, Reddy BS.

Department of Dermatology and S.T.D., Maulana Azad Meical College and Associated Lok Nayak Hospital, New Delhi, India.

Our understanding of the aetiology of androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) has substantially increased in recent years. As a result, several treatment modalities have been tried with promising results especially in early stages of Androgenetic Alopecia. However, as far as has been ascertained, there is no comprehensive study comparing the efficacy of these agents alone and in combination with each other. One hundered male patients with Androgenetic Alopecia of Hamilton grades II to IV were enrolled in an open, randomized, parallel-group study, designed to evaluate and compare the efficacy of oral finasteride (1 mg per day), topical 2% minoxidil solution and topical 2% ketoconazole shampoo alone and in combination. They were randomized into four groups. Group I (30 patients) was administered oral finasteride, Group II (36 patients) was given a combination of finasteride and topical minoxidil, Group III (24 patients) applied minoxidil alone and Group IV (10 patients) was administered finasteride with topical ketoconazole. Treatment efficacy was assessed on the basis of patient and physician assessment scores and global photographic review during the study period of one year. At the end of one year, hair growth was observed in all the groups with best results recorded with a combination of finasteride and minoxidil (Group II) followed by groups IV, I and III. Subjects receiving finasteride alone or in combination with minoxidil or ketoconazole showed statistically significant improvement (p<0.05) over minoxidil only recipients. No signifcant side-effects related to the drugs were observed. In conclusion, it is inferred that the therapeutic efficacy is enhanced by combining the two drugs acting on different aetiological aspects of Androgenetic Alopecia.

Topical application of ketoconazole stimulates hair growth in C3H/HeN mice.

Jiang J, Tsuboi R, Kojima Y, Ogawa H.

Department of Dermatology, Juntendo University School of Medicine, Tokyo 113-8421, Japan.

Ketoconazole (KCZ) is an imidazole anti-fungal agent that is also effective in topical applications for treating seborrheic dermatitis and dandruff. Recently, topical use of 2% KCZ shampoo has been reported to have had a clinically therapeutic effect on androgenetic alopecia. The present study was conducted with the purpose of quantitatively examining the stimulatory effect of KCZ on hair growth in a mouse model. Coat hairs on the dorsal skin of seven week-old male C3H/HeN mice were gently clipped, and either 2% KCZ solution in 95% ethanol or a vehicle solution was topically applied once daily for three weeks. The clipped area was photographed, and the ratio of re-grown coat area was then calculated. The results demonstrated that 2% KCZ had a macroscopically significant stimulatory effect compared with the vehicle group (p<0.01, n=10). Repeated experiments showed similar effects, confirming the efficacy of KCZ as a hair growth stimulant. Although the therapeutic mechanism of topical KCZ for hair growth is unclear, our results suggest that topical applications of the substance are useful for treating seborrheic dermatitis accompanied by hair regression or male pattern hair loss.

Related to the study few posts up.

Some of the studies indicate, KCZ is even more effective (hair count) than finasteride/dutasteride/minoxidil.