Bryan, clariton on the scalp for the immune factor?

[CCS]

they suppress the immune system for people with allergies. They sell topical claritin and topical benidril. Alternate them each month to avoid dependency. Just grind the tablets up and through them in minoxidil with some BHT. Almost no side effect orally, so probably none topically.

Could this be as good as cyclosporin, without the side effects?

 

[CCS]

bump.

 

[powersam]

they have tried to make topical antihistamines for a long time now. for the treatment of auto immune skin diseases etc. however they all had the same problem which was large abscesses appearing on the skin after any length of use.

i've heard about new ones being tested at the moment which may not have thsi problem, but your idea of grinding up oral antihistamines and using them as a topical would probably end in you having large abscesses on your head.

ignoring the abscess issue, i've often wondered if a topical anti histamine could stop the immune reaction in the scalp. noones been able to test though for obvious reasons.

While topical antihistamines produce an immediate inhibition of itch, topical preparations frequently produce allergic contact sensitivity

 

[michael barry]

topical cyclosporine supposedly was only around 20% effective for male pattern baldness.

Topical roxythromicyn is currently in trials for Androgenetic Alopecia.


It would be interesting if someone tried this, gave it six months, and reported back to us their results.



However....................events AROUND the follicle seem to be driven by the immune system, but events within the follicle after androgen uptake seem to be driven by the negative growth factors released by the dermal papilla. Of these, as Docj077 has pointed out many times, TGF_beta 1 and 2 seem to be what get the immune system interested in tissues in other autoimmune disorders around the body and leads to cytokine dispersal and excessive collagen depostion. Inhibiting this negative growth factor might end the immune response alone----and eliminating other negative growth factors like PKC and IL one would help also.

 

[CCS]

Do anti-oxidants inhibit TGF_beta 1 and 2? I read that most anti-oxidants are not absorbed well. What would be the effects have injecting one self with saline and anti-oxidants each day? Would that stop arthritis?

Also, if the anti-oxidants inhibit it, maybe the immuno suppressants are not needed.

I wonder what causes the absceses. Boswellia extract fatty acids inhibit the signal that calls the immune system to an area. I forgot what chemical that signal is. I could google it again. I wonder if it is a good option. Fat soluble stuff is absorbed very well.

 

[Bryan]

Actually, Pearson & Shaw in Life Extension suggest that histamine is actually beneficial for the growth of hair follicle cells. Here's a passage in which they discuss the use of polysorbate 60/80 (added emphasis is my own):

Polysorbate 80 (which Durk prefers) and polysorbate 60 work in at least two or three different ways. They remove dihydrotestosterone and cholesterol from the scalp. They release histamine (a growth factor). They also probably affect the control of genetic activities in the hair follicle cells since they are able to reverse some of the early tissue disorganization which occurs at the start of some chemically induced cancers. Theoretically, part of the molecule (called a polyoxyethylene chain) should interact with the nucleo-proteins which regulate genetic activity.

 

[CCS]

are polysorbate 80 and 60 vehicles too? Kind of scary that any vehicle I use can interact with DNA in a good or bad way.

 

[Old Baldy]

Bryan: I always thought polysorbate 80 that contained biotin and niacin released histamine. Polysorbate on its own....hmmm.... I never knew that.

CCS: Polysorbate 80 is a commonly used emuslifier in cosmetics. It is very good at mixing oils, alcohol and water together.

If you buy it from Puritan's Pride and Swanson's vitamins it contains biotin and niacin. Vitamin Shop also... I think.

You could probably use nicotinic acid as your form of niacin. I use it in most of my homemade concoctions. I use it mainly for vasodilation and hopefully more penetration of other stuff?

You could probably use folic acid also but don't know for sure, just a guess.

Finally, Dr. Proctor says we shouldn't expect much from histamine releasers.

You could probably do better with incorporating nicotinic acid n-oxide as a regrowth agent and penetration enhancer but you'd be violating Dr. Proctor's patent and it's hard to get from what I've read.

 

[CCS]

topical cyclosporine supposedly was only around 20% effective for male pattern baldness.

Interesting. Proctor was implying that the immune response is a big deal. Now I'm leaning more towards the anti-oxidants and the chemicals usually found with them in certain extracts.

I recently learned what an abscess is. It is a deep infection that the body walls off to keep from spreading to the rest of the body. So we need our immune system to work on the surface of the skin, or we get infections. And the pores are not only the entry route for drugs, but for bacteria. With just a 20% response rate, I'd just skip the immune suppresants.

 

[michael barry]

CCS,

that might have to do with how the immune system works. The immune system sends out cells that scavenge the body looking for things that look amiss....................when they find them, marker cells hang around and killer cells and t-cells show up later to attack. Under your arms and the inside of your legs (if I remember right, I could be wrong about this) are sort of "hangars" for the immune system or sort of a "base" for it. There was another couple of places that I forget.

Do you see why the immune system would have to be suppressed almost totally to shut it down. Even if you could mitigate certain immuno cells topically, there are more than one kind of immuno "attack" cell to suppress, the oxides that those cells seeminlgy direct and inflammatory cytokines that might be downstream from their perusal wouldn't be effected by topical cycloporine either.

In pre-clinicals, roxythromicin was somewhat effective on eight out of eleven men, but only four really had "good" growth-----------it was just entering phase one, so we wont know anything for years.

Im getting to be inclined with Doctor that tgf-beta 1 and 2 might be what get the immune system interested in the hair follicle anyway..............

 

[CCS]

what do you think causes the abscesses?

 

[Dawgrit]

Bryan: I always thought polysorbate 80 that contained biotin and niacin released histamine. Polysorbate on its own....hmmm.... I never knew that.

CCS: Polysorbate 80 is a commonly used emuslifier in cosmetics. It is very good at mixing oils, alcohol and water together.

If you buy it from Puritan's Pride and Swanson's vitamins it contains biotin and niacin. Vitamin Shop also... I think.

You could probably use nicotinic acid as your form of niacin. I use it in most of my homemade concoctions. I use it mainly for vasodilation and hopefully more penetration of other stuff?

You could probably use folic acid also but don't know for sure, just a guess.

Finally, Dr. Proctor says we shouldn't expect much from histamine releasers.

You could probably do better with incorporating nicotinic acid n-oxide as a regrowth agent and penetration enhancer but you'd be violating Dr. Proctor's patent and it's hard to get from what I've read.

I currently abuse diphenhydramine and it is the prime suspect of my rapid thinning of normally thick hair. One thing I saw was that antihistamines can also block HG and effect hair growth/loss. Ive done much research on GABA in that it can help sleep and promote HG (also must be used responsibly). GABA suppliments alone dont cross the blood brain barrier, but many gabaergics used naicin to help travel through the bbb. Maybe why the p-80 has niacin w/ the biotin. Also interesting to hear biotin helps histamine production and hair growth while I will find out if anti-histamine is the "root" of my problem.