Can dutasteride affect brain function?
- Thread starter Goingat20
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Goingat20
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The reason i bring up this topic is because after a few tests at the chiropractor he suggests that there could be something happening with the function between the left side and right side of my brain which is putting one side of my back under enormous stress...
Felk
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hey mate, sad to hear you're in trouble with your back.
The connections between the left and right sides of your brain can put one side of your back under stress? Wow, that's the first i've heard of such things. Hopefully Bryan can shed some light, all I know is the average joe about inhibition in the brain - that it inhibits 5ar1 as well as 5ar2, which is found in the brain (unlike type 2).
The connections between the left and right sides of your brain can put one side of your back under stress? Wow, that's the first i've heard of such things. Hopefully Bryan can shed some light, all I know is the average joe about inhibition in the brain - that it inhibits 5ar1 as well as 5ar2, which is found in the brain (unlike type 2).
Goingat20
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hey buddy
Yeh i have been getting some slight muscle atrophy in right side of body along with some muscle shortening. It is not that obvioous but obvious enough to people when they focus on it. I had an EMG scan which the chiropractor did and he thinks it is in relation to brain function which gave me a bit of a scare. But then again i dont know if i could believe everything they say...
Yeh i have been getting some slight muscle atrophy in right side of body along with some muscle shortening. It is not that obvioous but obvious enough to people when they focus on it. I had an EMG scan which the chiropractor did and he thinks it is in relation to brain function which gave me a bit of a scare. But then again i dont know if i could believe everything they say...
RaginDemon
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if you take dutasteride, thats some risk you have to take.
T
Timi
Guest
dutasteride makes me
agressiv and sleeplessly
Head pressure
i am back to finasteride
On a long-term basis me the Risko is too high
dutasteride enriches itself in the brain
Timi
agressiv and sleeplessly
Head pressure
i am back to finasteride
On a long-term basis me the Risko is too high
dutasteride enriches itself in the brain
Timi
T
Timi
Guest
No
the side effect to high
i would make my attempt further but dutasteride makes me down
when i take a Pill i am 2Days K.O
Head Pressure -tired
Timi
the side effect to high
i would make my attempt further but dutasteride makes me down
when i take a Pill i am 2Days K.O
Head Pressure -tired
Timi
No-one knows what the long term brain effects of dutasteride are - not GSK, not doctors and certainly not posters on hairloss forums.
I think there may have been a statistically significant difference between the dutasteride and placebo & finasteride groups in the incidence of headaches in the phase II hair loss trial. But the prevalence was still very limited (about 8% versus 4%). There was no difference between the groups in terms of malaise and fatigue. Overall, fewer adverse effects were recorded in the 0.5mg/day dutasteride group than the placebo group.
I think there may have been a statistically significant difference between the dutasteride and placebo & finasteride groups in the incidence of headaches in the phase II hair loss trial. But the prevalence was still very limited (about 8% versus 4%). There was no difference between the groups in terms of malaise and fatigue. Overall, fewer adverse effects were recorded in the 0.5mg/day dutasteride group than the placebo group.
Goingat20 I think you should read this, and print a copy to bring with you to a neurologist for discussion.
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=40766
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=40766
Mew, I worry about posting of excerpts of various studies without context or professional interpretation.
We know that the presence of absence of androgens has various neurological implications, and we know that there is a different sex ratio for various neurological and psychiatric diseases.
However, this is a far cry from proving that either finasteride or dutasteride increase the risk of neurodegenerative diseases. There are no studies into this, and I believe that no propensities of this sort were detected in the 5AR deficient pseudohermaphrodites (though maybe this is because no specific studies have been conducted).
The bottom line is that no-one knows what the long term neurological effect of dutasteride is - not GSK, or doctors, or posters here. If you want to adopt the precautionary principle, don't take the drug.
We know that the presence of absence of androgens has various neurological implications, and we know that there is a different sex ratio for various neurological and psychiatric diseases.
However, this is a far cry from proving that either finasteride or dutasteride increase the risk of neurodegenerative diseases. There are no studies into this, and I believe that no propensities of this sort were detected in the 5AR deficient pseudohermaphrodites (though maybe this is because no specific studies have been conducted).
The bottom line is that no-one knows what the long term neurological effect of dutasteride is - not GSK, or doctors, or posters here. If you want to adopt the precautionary principle, don't take the drug.
Well considering that there are studies out there showing what happens when you deprive the body of DHT/interfere with 5AR (such as the one I posted in that link), regardless of drug -- and the physical/neurological implications of such -- I'd say it's already been proven.
It just hasn't been stated as such by "Merck" or "Glaxo" (and likely never will be), because they of course don't want people to know about such potential, although admitedly rare, consequences of 5AR inhibitors.
You treat the pseudohermaphrodite model as God. Personally, it's worthless to me.
As I've debated with you elsewhere on this forum, normal men are not pseudohermaphrodites, nor are they women (to refute your "women have less DHT than men and they are fine, so we should be too!" claims).
As I've stated already, changing a normal male's hormonal profile to match that of a pseudohermaphrodite (who's genetic makeup/hormone profile is inherently different since conception) can have unintended consequences, since normal men were never MEANT to function as or have the hormonal profile of a pseudohermaphrodite.
Again, just because we CAN change our hormonal profiles to match theirs, doesn't mean we SHOULD. Nature built us a certain way, and if you mess with that, bad things may happen.
Agreed. And in the study I quoted above, it would seem the use of Finasteride may have unknown, unforeseen consequences due to reduction of DHT and thus interference with 5ARII androgen-activated neurite outgrowth.
Mew said:
This is stretching credibility beyond breaking point - there is no direct evidence. Non-professionals like us need to be careful in extrapolating too far from various studies we've found on PubMed.
The pseudohermaphrodites were the 'model' for finasteride and demonstrate the consequences of 5AR2 inhibition and DHT deprivation. As adults, they have a grossly underdeveloped prostate but are otherwise healthy men with a libido, normal bone and muscle mass and sparse facial and body hair. No other clinical abnormalities have been observed in them, although they don't suffer from male pattern baldness, BPH or prostate cancer.
And I remember previous debates with you where you have been keen to highlight rodent models... little bit of hypocrisy creeping in here?
Well, numerous men have been castrated throughout history - an outcome rather more dramatic than taking a 5ARI - and yet they still managed to 'function', albeit with reproductive potential somewhat impaired and an increased risk of suffering conditions more common in menopausal women, like osteoporosis.
By your logic we should never make any hormonal interventions, even where there are benefits in, for example, alleviating BPH or reducing the risk of prostate cancer?
Goingat20 said:
Even Mew admits that finasteride has not been conclusively proven or linked to neurodegenerative diseases. He is a non-specialist anti-Propecia poster speculating and drawing inferences about the pathogenesis of conditions which are often still poorly understood. This doesn't give me any confidence in his objectivity or the reliability of the conclusions he draws.
There are sex-linked differences in the prevalence of certain neurological and psychiatric conditions. We know that women are more likely than men to suffer depression, anxiety or an eating disorder, while men are at higher risk of Parkinson's disease. It's very likely that different hormone levels play a part. Estrogen, for example, is speculated to have neuroprotective effects in the female brain that can reduce the risk of Parkinson's disease.
Given that finasteride / dutasteride increase estrogen levels, that could be a positive benefit for neurological health. Then again, it might not if there are other factors that make the male brain respond in a different way.
Goingat20 said:
Finasteride is to be preferred to dutasteride because it's selective for 5AR2, there is a biological model for its effects, and it has a longer history of safe use - not to mention it's cheaper! The adverse reactions caused by dutasteride 0.5mg/day and finasteride 5mg/day were comparable in various trials but the long-term implications of 5AR1 inhibition are totally unknown.
The long-term added value of dutasteride as a hair loss treatment is also unknown. It is definitely more effective over six months, but we don't have any good longer term data. What seems like a significantly higher hair count may in fact be just a quicker short term response.