Can you quit Rogaine after 1 year if you're on DHT inhibitor

[Gregint]

It's advised that any hair you regain on Rogaine will be lost once you stop using it.

My question is whether this applies to individuals using Propecia and Dutasteride as well.

I am regaining lots of hair on Rogaine and I am also taking 1mg daily of Avodart (dutasteride, I got .5mg prescribed by two separate doctors). I hate using Rogaine so I am hoping that once I regain the hair I have lost, I can safely stop using it because the dutasteride will prevent me from losing the hair again.

 

[Bryan]

It's been very well established on hairloss forums (there's even a study written on it in a medical journal!) that finasteride alone is unable to maintain hair that was grown with topical minoxidil. The same is almost certainly true of dutasteride, too. Sorry.

 

[Gregint]

Yes but lots of crap is written on these forums. There are people claiming that dutasteride destroys your hairline and that Propecia shrinks your genitals.

Do you have a link to the study you claimed demonstrated that finasteride was not effective at retaining hair regained from minoxidil? This doesn't make sense to me because the hair that is regained should ultimately be no different than any other hair on one's head. It was initially lost because of dht, but now that one is using a dht inhibitor, there is no logical reason why this hair should be lost.

This would totally suck if you're right because there is no way I am going to put this crap on my head forever. It works for right now because I do IT consultancy from my home.

 

[Rawtashk]

minoxidil and finasteride work in different ways. Actually...no one is completely sure WHY minoxidil will regrow hair. However, there are MANY people on this board who will tell you that the shed a lot of hair when they stopped Rogaine, even though they were on finasteride.

 

[kehcorpz]

I quit and am still recovering from it. I had a major shed where my hair got way worse than prior to minoxidil. But I knew minoxidil didn't grow anything for me because I never saw anything it was simply progressing even more. I posted the study in one of the other posts but you will bottom out at about 3-4.5 months. During this time it will be worse than when you started and it will be a confidence killer but if you wait it out it should return to where it was prior to starting minus any hairs that were affected by DHT during the time up until your recovery. I'll be off for 5 months on june 21st and while my hair did get way worse I am starting to notice it growing back. I have been on finasteride for about 11 months as well.

 

[Gregint]

I have looked everywhere and there is no such study. Why are you both making this claim? Please provide a citation or link so that I can see this study for myself. It doesn't make any sense that you could lose hair regained from Rogaine while on Propecia.

 

[kehcorpz]

You'll have to pay for the full text. I have read the full study and it follows the pattern I have mentioned. The telogen effluvium is unavoidable.

http://www.eblue.org/article/S0190-9622(99)70006-X/abstract

Abstract

Quantitative estimation of hair growth using hair weight and number was recorded for 120 weeks in 4 groups of 9 men with androgenetic alopecia. Three double-blind groups applied either 2% or 5% minoxidil solution, or vehicle. The fourth group, unblinded, received no treatment. Measurements of hair weight and number were continued for 96 weeks, when treatment (if any) was stopped, though measurements were continued for another 24 weeks. Although not compared statistically, the placebo and untreated groups behaved in a similar fashion. In contrast, the 5% and 2% minoxidil treatment groups showed a statistically significant increase in mean percentage change in interval weight from baseline compared with placebo; results for number counts were usually less significant. Over 96 weeks, topical minoxidil induced and maintained an increase in interval weight over baseline of about 30%. After treatment was stopped, hair weight and number counts for the minoxidil groups returned to about the same levels as placebo in 24 weeks.(J Am Acad Dermatol 1999;41:717-21.)

So after 6 months you should be back to the same level as if you had never started the treatment.

 

[Gregint]

How does this prove that if you are taking both a dht inhibitor (finasteride or dutasteride) and minoxidil that you would lose your regained hair on cessation of minoxidil?

I understand that if you were just taking minoxidil alone and then stopped taking it you would naturally lose whatever you gained.

My point is that if you were taking dutasteride or finasteride, that would allow you to keep whatever gains you make. This study groups here were all solely taking minoxidil so it fails to prove or disprove my theory.

 

[kehcorpz]

If the gains made were via minoxidil then no. If the mechanism for your gains was through dht inhibition then you will keep it. My point is that you will lose more hair than you have actually gained through minoxidil and it will then even out after 6 months. This is merely a telogen effluvium that occurs due to conditions changing in your scalp. You will gain back anything not kept with minoxidil. It's just people get scared because of the telogen effluvium thinking minoxidil did more than they initially thought.

 

[Bryan]

Do you have a link to the study you claimed demonstrated that finasteride was not effective at retaining hair regained from minoxidil?

I don't have a "link" to it, I just have a paper copy of it which I made at the local medical library. Sorry.

This doesn't make sense to me because the hair that is regained should ultimately be no different than any other hair on one's head. It was initially lost because of dht, but now that one is using a dht inhibitor, there is no logical reason why this hair should be lost.

It's common knowledge on hairloss forums that it works that way. The authors of that study were emphatic in saying that it wasn't just a few of their patients who had lost hair after stopping the use of topical minoxidil even though they continued to use finasteride, they said that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM had had that experience!!

 

[Bryan]

I have looked everywhere and there is no such study. Why are you both making this claim? Please provide a citation or link so that I can see this study for myself. It doesn't make any sense that you could lose hair regained from Rogaine while on Propecia.

I can assure you that there is such a study! I've quoted from it many times on these hairloss forums!

Give me a little time to find it again, and I'll give you the full citation.

 

[Bryan]

How does this prove that if you are taking both a dht inhibitor (finasteride or dutasteride) and minoxidil that you would lose your regained hair on cessation of minoxidil?

I understand that if you were just taking minoxidil alone and then stopped taking it you would naturally lose whatever you gained.

My point is that if you were taking dutasteride or finasteride, that would allow you to keep whatever gains you make. This study groups here were all solely taking minoxidil so it fails to prove or disprove my theory.

You're right, of course. The study that "kehcorpz" cited is not the same one that _I_ was talking about. Give me a little time, and I'll get the citation for the CORRECT one for you.

 

[kehcorpz]

Yah I thought you meant that if you gain hair from the propecia while on rogaine will you lose the propecia gains, and that's a no. You will lose every bit of the gains made through minoxidil alone and maybe even more initially. Propecia has no bearing on these minoxidil hairs. Up until recently they didn't even know how minoxidil works. A study done believes its because minoxidil somehow increases prostaglandin endoperoxide synthase 1 and this promotes hair growth. This is the only thing keeping the hair follicle growing once it disappears which it will after quitting minoxidil nothing will bring it back except by increasing prostaglandin es-1 again.

 

[Gregint]

Yah I thought you meant that if you gain hair from the propecia while on rogaine will you lose the propecia gains, and that's a no. You will lose every bit of the gains made through minoxidil alone and maybe even more initially. Propecia has no bearing on these minoxidil hairs. Up until recently they didn't even know how minoxidil works. A study done believes its because minoxidil somehow increases prostaglandin endoperoxide synthase 1 and this promotes hair growth. This is the only thing keeping the hair follicle growing once it disappears which it will after quitting minoxidil nothing will bring it back except by increasing prostaglandin es-1 again.

that actually makes sense and I didn't think of that. I eagerly await Bryan's study. I really hate this Rogaine foam although I am having a really good response because it makes my hair look so terrible. I have long curly hair and it makes it frizzy.

 

[Bryan]

Okay, I finally found that study! This is its name: "Finasteride Treatment May Not Prevent Telogen Effluvium After Minoxidil Withdrawal", Antonella Tosti, MD, and Matilde Iorizzo, MD. Arch Dermatol/Vol 139, Sep 2003. Pages 1221-1222.

Here's part of what they say in the final paragraph at the end: "So far, all of our patients who interrupted their minoxidil treatment and continued using finasteride have experienced a worsening of Androgenetic Alopecia..."

 

[Gregint]

Okay, I finally found that study! This is its name: "Finasteride Treatment May Not Prevent Telogen Effluvium After Minoxidil Withdrawal", Antonella Tosti, MD, and Matilde Iorizzo, MD. Arch Dermatol/Vol 139, Sep 2003. Pages 1221-1222.

Here's part of what they say in the final paragraph at the end: "So far, all of our patients who interrupted their minoxidil treatment and continued using finasteride have experienced a worsening of Androgenetic Alopecia..."

Thanks. What's most disturbing about that study is that it seems to confirm what kehcorpz was saying in that you may actually go below your baseline after stopping minoxidil. If you look at the pictures, his hair looks worse after stopping minoxidil than it did before he started any treatment (even though he was still taking finasteride after stopping the minoxidil).

Maybe I'll switch to the liquid now that I know I'm in this for the long haul and am going to have to take this crap for the rest of my life. I read that the foam was more effective and when I tried the liquid it burned and ran all over the place.

Here is a direct link with pictures

http://archderm.jamanetwork.com/article ... &page=1221

 

[Bryan]

Thanks. What's most disturbing about that study is that it seems to confirm what kehcorpz was saying in that you may actually go below your baseline after stopping minoxidil. If you look at the pictures, his hair looks worse after stopping minoxidil than it did before he started any treatment (even though he was still taking finasteride after stopping the minoxidil).

Dr. Vera Price's 1999 study on topical minoxidil (one of the very best ever performed) showed that although there are sudden drops in haircounts and hairweights shortly after discontinuing minoxidil that may actually take you below baseline, there's a further "rebound" of counts and weights, after another couple of months. It appears to go pretty much back to the normal "placebo" levels of counts and weights.

Here is a direct link with pictures

http://archderm.jamanetwork.com/article ... &page=1221

Hey, COOL!! Now we have a direct link to that study!

 

[kehcorpz]

Okay, I finally found that study! This is its name: "Finasteride Treatment May Not Prevent Telogen Effluvium After Minoxidil Withdrawal", Antonella Tosti, MD, and Matilde Iorizzo, MD. Arch Dermatol/Vol 139, Sep 2003. Pages 1221-1222.

Here's part of what they say in the final paragraph at the end: "So far, all of our patients who interrupted their minoxidil treatment and continued using finasteride have experienced a worsening of Androgenetic Alopecia..."

Thanks. What's most disturbing about that study is that it seems to confirm what kehcorpz was saying in that you may actually go below your baseline after stopping minoxidil. If you look at the pictures, his hair looks worse after stopping minoxidil than it did before he started any treatment (even though he was still taking finasteride after stopping the minoxidil).

Maybe I'll switch to the liquid now that I know I'm in this for the long haul and am going to have to take this crap for the rest of my life. I read that the foam was more effective and when I tried the liquid it burned and ran all over the place.

Here is a direct link with pictures

http://archderm.jamanetwork.com/article ... &page=1221

Yah I quit rogaine because I was one of the few unlucky that it wrecked havoc on their face for. I mean I aged 10-15 years over a period of 1 year. Luckily I've reversed most of the effects by quitting. But when I was using the foam I actually started putting the cap under warm water and melting it and then using a dropper to put the product on, it worked much better and barely took any time. And best part is it didn't really run because the stuff dries pretty quickly. So you should give that a try if you want to save some time.

 

[Gregint]

Thanks for the tip.

Can you and Bryan tell me what you think of my loss so far?

Am I really losing my hair or is it my imagination? I have been on Propecia before any visible loss and just started a big three regimen around two months ago substituting 1mg dutasteride for propecia.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 14eaaec5f5

 

[kehcorpz]

Yah it does look like the initial stages of hair loss. It's actually good that you caught it now. I think though that the curly hair may make it look worse because it seems so thick on the edges.