Combating side effects

[follicle84]

Anyone got any idea's or suggestions how to reduce or prevent side effects from using hairloss treatments. I've got a few idea's of my own. Feel free to list any ideas you think might work. If anyone has any experience trying these or any other ideas please share your experience.

Here's a few.

Finestride:

Gyno -tomaxifen/ Arimidex
Sex drive- Zinc/v****/Acai
Fatigue- Pure glucose/ginseng
Brain fog- reduce dosage/ omega 3
weight gain- green tea
Acne- azelaic acid

Nizoral:

Dry damaged hair (fried hair)- Conditioner/Brylcream

Minoxidil

Flaky scalp-nizoral/tea trea oil/xandrox(no ppg) foam
Irritation- reduce alcohol content/ use less


Of course some of this is common sense but i feel i should mention them anyway. The next few posts i will explain each of them pro's and cons. These are just idea's by the way they are not all guaranteed to work just possible solutions i've read up and thought of.

 

[follicle84]

Finestride (proscar/propecia).

For Gynecomastia (breast enlargement) use;


Tomaxifen

A drug that doesnt interfere with estrogen but merely binds it at its receptor points in the breasts.

Main use is to stop breast cancer from forming by inhibiting the ability of growth in the breasts that could feed cancer cells.

Problems - Slight hairloss
- Nausea and vomiting
- Hot flushes
- Fatigue
- Possible liver changes
- Possible weight gain
- Mood changes


For more information see link below.

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=18399

Only few of these side effects are common (hot flushes and fatigue).

One more thing i read a while ago that tomaxifen loses its effect quite quickly and can easilly back fire if used in the long term so this would only be a good short term solution.

Tomaxifen i should note is SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator), which is designed to target specific estrogen receptors. I've only known a few users on here to use it and they didnt get gyno but thats not a big enough audience to base a conclusion on when combatting Gyno from finestride. I thought about using it myself with finestride but backed out of the idea in fear of messing up my hormones, but thats me. It might work for you but thats a decision only you can make

Arimidex

An anti estrogen blocker or aromatase inhibitor i should say. This stops the conversion of testosterone (an androgen) into estrogen. This has been known to be used for preventing breast cancer but is also used by body builders who are suffering from gyno and want to prevent it. The mechanisms of action are different from tomaxifen in the way that it doesnt target specific estrogen receptors but rather prevents the conversion of other hormones into estrogen.

Problems - Hot flashes
- Joint problems
- Nausea and vomiting
- Bone loss
- Fatigue
- Swelling (lymphedema)
- Mood changes
- Slight hair thinning


For more information see link below.

http://www.arimidex.com/arimidex-about/side-effects.aspx
http://www.cancernet.co.uk/arimidex.htm

Side affects although not always common are worse than thoughs found in tomaxifen and some little more common. Unlike tomaxifen by blocking the conversion of estrogen rather than binding it it causes other problems. One of thoughs is bone density. One of estrogens important roles is to maintain strong bones. A lack of it through using aromatase inhibitor will causes some serious problems. However when using finestride it might not be such a bad thing. Finestride works by blocking the enzyme 5 alpha reductase from converting Testosterone into dht (Dihydrotestosterone). In doing this your left with less DHT which the brain signals for inceased production of testosterone to enable more testosterone conversion to DHT which can't happen due to the inhibition of 5ar responsible for that conversion. The result of which is a slight increase in testosterone levels which can easilly be converted to estrogen through aromatisation by the pituitary (A gland in your brain responsible for regulating hormones evenly). The result of which is more estrogen and testosterone in your body. An aromatase inhibitor will prevent this conversion and hopefully keep your estrogen to normal levels (no gyno) with more testosterone. There is of course a risk that that testosterone can be converted back into DHT but finestride might prevent that.

Aromatase inhibitors from what i have read block the conversion of estrogen by 50% in men. It can still be risky as it might still make your estrogen levels lower than normal despite using finestride. I've only known two people on this forum to use it. One of them is on the following link

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=48746

One user it worked great for and the other it worked but gave other strange side effects which got too much (see link above) for him. I personally wouldnt use the stuff its expensive and posses more risks. You can however like bryan suggests cut the pill up and saveon costs and reduce risk of further side effects. Should you use armidex or any other aromatase inhibitors along side finestride get your blood and hormones checked frequently through medical checks before and when using it.

 

[follicle84]

Nizoral

For Dry/damage hair use;

Conditioner

Can be used to repair, protect and moisturise hair (only certain conditioners) making it look healthy and maybe thicker.

problems - it can make your hair look greasy
- its not suitable for everyone
- it can do the opposite and dry your hair and scalp if used too much
- it can cause dandruff.

For more information see link below.

http://www.happynews.com/living/haircare/need-use-conditioner.htm

From what i understand conditioner is used to give scalp moisture. It best suited for people with little to no natural scalp moisture in their hair. People with natural scalp moisture shouldnt use conditioner too much as it will cause the opposite effect to happen. Now i read that it should be used after using nizoral because nizoral takes a way the scalps natural moisture (sebum) that needs to be replenished to protect and repair the hair from dryness and damage which nizoral can cause. Condtioner should be used after you have left nizoral long enough on your scalp to do its work and then wash nizoral out with it. For more information see link below.

http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-hairloss.htm

I have actually personally tried this and it kept my hair from drying up and being irritated. I leave nizoral on for 5- 7 mins before washing it out with conditioner. Even than the bottle says 3-5 mins at 2% nizoral. The reason for this is being that thoughs instruction are for getting rid of dandruff and fungal infections not male pattern baldness so i leave it on a little longer but not much. Furthermore I only use a little bit of nizoral. Originally i was using too much and shed like crazy with an irritated scalp. I believe this was overkill. I use nizoral once a week and t-gel (less harsh) every other day. I dont have anymore problems with nizoral since applying conditioner and using it less. I dont use it often because its expensive and i got t-gel which is more easier to get hold of use.

Should you try using conditioner check the condition of your hair before you do so you might only need a little conditioner. If it completelly dries it out then you will obviously need a bit more. Note that nizoral should be used 1-2 weeks for dandruff and scalp problems and maybe 2-3 week for treating male pattern baldness.

 

[Bryan]

Finestride works by blocking the enzyme 5 alpha reductase from forming into dht (Dihydrotestosterone). In doing this your left with more free circulating testosterone...

I don't think that's the way it works, but I've been talking about this issue until I'm blue in the face, and nobody pays any attention.

Aromatase inhibitors from what i have read block the conversion of estrogen by 50% in men. It can still be risky as it might still make your estrogen levels lower than normal despite using finestride.

Yeah, which is why you shouldn't use a FULL DOSE of Arimidex. Use only small doses. Cheaper that way, too. You should probably do that under medical supervision.

 

[follicle84]

Your right. Finestride inhibits the enzyme 5ar (Type 2 5-alpha reductase) from converting testosterone into dht. It does not stop the enzyme from turning into dht like i mentioned. I'll make the necessary changes in that statement.

Yeah, which is why you shouldn't use a FULL DOSE of Arimidex. Use only small doses. Cheaper that way, too. You should probably do that under medical supervision.

True thats a way round the cost and the blocking too much estrogen problem. I'll add that in. The medical supervision would be apart of the body and blood checks carried out frequently. Its definetelly highly advisable to have this done should one use both of these drugs (finasteride, arimidex).

 

[Bryan]

Your right. Finestride inhibits the enzyme 5ar (Type 2 5-alpha reductase) from converting testosterone into dht. It does not stop the enzyme from turning into dht like i mentioned. I'll make the necessary changes in that statement.

That's not even what I was talking about. I just now this very moment noticed the little problem with the wording which you just fixed. It went right by me, the first time!

What I was talking about is this assumption that everybody makes (believe me, you're not the only one) that testosterone levels rise when you take finasteride, ONLY because less of it is being metabolized into DHT. Now that is actually true in a certain very simple sense, but I had something much more subtle in mind: DHT has been shown to be a player in that feedback loop which the brain uses to control testosterone production. When the brain sees a sharp decline in DHT, it thinks "Uh-oh...there must not be enough androgen here...I better send the signal to the testes to start manufacturing more testosterone!"

How do we know that that's the case, and it's not SIMPLY the case that there's more testosterone floating around because less of it is being metabolized into DHT? Here's an actual statement from the Proscar section of the PDR (Physician's Desk Reference) which gives an important clue about what's going on:

"Increases of about 10% were observed in luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and testosterone levels in patients receiving Proscar, but levels remained within the normal range."

AHA!! The obvious inference to be drawn here is that testosterone levels increased because the brain TOLD the testes to start making more of it (T levels and LH levels both increased by the same 10%)!

 

[follicle84]

Your knowledge is quite profound. Where do you read such materials? Google scholar? You sound to me like you enjoy studying. Are you from some sort of academic background, science profession or is this a hobby. I know a fair bit about hairloss but i've still much to learn. I will fix the technicallity in that statement.