Compound for preventing hairloss and stimulating hair growth
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sapinho
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Anyone else here with they studied chemistry more? I mean, I'm surrounded by green (Brazil), including Mango trees whose leaves contain the above mentioned Gallic Acid. ...I could pay the homeless people (who normally collect trash) $5 to go into the jungle and get me a huge bag full of mango leaves and arrange a place to dry them, heat them at 60C for some hours in water-ethol (I don't even pay for gas), etc. Anyway, you get point that I don't know what I'm talking about. More DIY stuff like that would be great, in a sublime "the wealth is all around us" hippie kind of way.
T
TravisB
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http://yakushi.pharm.or.jp/FULL_TEXT/130_9/pdf/1207.pdf here is the study.
Screen from it:
Whoa, it seems to be very effective, maybe it's worth giving a shot. But where to get it? The study is in vitro, there wasn't any research if it works the same in vivo (in human organism).
Screen from it:
Whoa, it seems to be very effective, maybe it's worth giving a shot. But where to get it? The study is in vitro, there wasn't any research if it works the same in vivo (in human organism).
sapinho
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The Cuban product Vimang is a mango extract, contains roughly 7% mangiferin by weight (according to the Brazilian paper I reference below). I did see some Chinese products in powder form as well. To put into perspective...
In "Mangiferin in Leaves of Three Thai Mango Varieties" (2010) they got nearly 3 g from just 100 g of dry leaves (but as low as 0.13 g depending on variety and extraction method), in other words, from just one plastic bag full of leaves you could potentially make roughly 6 liters of the 500 mu-g/mL solution referenced in the figure above.
But other studies showed much lower concentrations. A Brazilian paper "Propriedades QuÃmicas e Famacológicas de Mangiferina: Um Composto Bioativo de Mango" (2009) compared different studies of extracting Mangiferin from the peel of Mangos, which varied from 0.001 g to 0.12 g per 100 g. But this was from dried peels.
EDIT: Studies confirm that the mangiferin content in peels is lower than leaves, and the content in peels lessens as they ripen. Comparing studies, one would be pretty lucky to get more that 3% mangiferin (by weight, powdered leaves). You see a few claims that younger leaves have more, but most studies make no mention of this.
In "Mangiferin in Leaves of Three Thai Mango Varieties" (2010) they got nearly 3 g from just 100 g of dry leaves (but as low as 0.13 g depending on variety and extraction method), in other words, from just one plastic bag full of leaves you could potentially make roughly 6 liters of the 500 mu-g/mL solution referenced in the figure above.
But other studies showed much lower concentrations. A Brazilian paper "Propriedades QuÃmicas e Famacológicas de Mangiferina: Um Composto Bioativo de Mango" (2009) compared different studies of extracting Mangiferin from the peel of Mangos, which varied from 0.001 g to 0.12 g per 100 g. But this was from dried peels.
EDIT: Studies confirm that the mangiferin content in peels is lower than leaves, and the content in peels lessens as they ripen. Comparing studies, one would be pretty lucky to get more that 3% mangiferin (by weight, powdered leaves). You see a few claims that younger leaves have more, but most studies make no mention of this.
sapinho
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Yeah, I know, I've got them in my backyard as well. Seemingly too good to be true. But I think it's worth a try. I'll do some research on where to buy if I have time today.
Just a few observations...
--People already take this internally with apparently no finasteride-like sides. Don't have good explanation for this.
--If it only blocks 5AR-II it would be good for hairloss, but there would be no easy way to know if it's working unless you quit everything else since (to my limited knowledge) type-II blockers don't reduce sebum production or retard the growth of body hair. Magniferin is also anti-inflammatory, which is good, but again makes it difficult to prove how it's working.
--Making a home formula would be fairly easy assuming we don't worry about isolating the yellow crystals of Mangiferin, and we just apply a reduced form of the ethanol used to extract it (I can buy 90% pure ethanol in Brazil at the gas station and mango leaves for free, talk about cheap! lol). This would contain Gallic acid as well (anti-inflammatory, etc). But the amount of Mangiferin seems to vary, so again makes this an experiment without proper controls.
Can someone with experience please comment?
Just a few observations...
--People already take this internally with apparently no finasteride-like sides. Don't have good explanation for this.
--If it only blocks 5AR-II it would be good for hairloss, but there would be no easy way to know if it's working unless you quit everything else since (to my limited knowledge) type-II blockers don't reduce sebum production or retard the growth of body hair. Magniferin is also anti-inflammatory, which is good, but again makes it difficult to prove how it's working.
--Making a home formula would be fairly easy assuming we don't worry about isolating the yellow crystals of Mangiferin, and we just apply a reduced form of the ethanol used to extract it (I can buy 90% pure ethanol in Brazil at the gas station and mango leaves for free, talk about cheap! lol). This would contain Gallic acid as well (anti-inflammatory, etc). But the amount of Mangiferin seems to vary, so again makes this an experiment without proper controls.
Can someone with experience please comment?
sapinho
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I'm gonna go ahead and take a shot at this.
Looking at studies using ethanol: **According to a Chinese study, they found that the best way to extract polyphenols from mango leaves was 22:1 ratio of 60% ethanol, agitate with 50Hz wave for 1 hr, then heat to 80C for 1.5 hr. **Other studies only used water for up to 48 hr and had similar extraction compared to 50% ethanol at 60C for only one hour (constantly stirring). **The "standard" technique involves defatting with petroleum ether, then Soxhlet extraction using ethanol for 21 hr. **Lastly, one study compared different species of mango, using pure ethanol, no agitation, left for 3 weeks, and achieved (depending on species) between 0.3g to 1g of mangiferin.
So, I'm not going to do anything fancy like Soxhlet extraction, but my observations of something that can be done in-home were:
-- Use a lot of liquid if possible (though 22:1 would be wasting a lot of alcohol)
-- approx 60% ethanol is probably ideal.
-- Probably no need to wait more than 48 hr
-- when reducing, include heating to 80C for up to 1.5hr in a water bath.
So, here's what I did so far. Just a test-run (it's pretty crude!)
1) Picked about 200 grams of mango leaves (local variety in Brazil) [free!]
2) Put them in a cloth sack and dried them in my clothes drier, then let them sit for 2 days. Were fairly crisp, but still very green.
3) Put them into blender with ~250 mL of distilled water (I would have ground them but don't have anything for doing this)
4) Bought 1L household cleaning ethanol (92% by volume, no additives) [$2!!!]
5) Put the blender mix into a 1 L bottle and topped it with alcohol. Capped.
....
6) Will let sit for 1 day.
7) On day 2 will try to reduce it to around 150 mL if possible (evaporation + 1.5 hr of heating at 80C).
8) Filter.
9) Most ethanol will have evaporated, so will some more, plus some glycerin, and bottle it up. [~15% glycerin, 15% ethanol, 70% filtered mix (mostly water and polyphenols)]
Calculations:
I'm assuming that on the low end, the mixture will have 0.2g of magniferin (from 200g of leaves), but even that would give around 1000 mu-gr per mL (assuming 150 to 200 mL). So at least approximately double what the study used when compared to finasteride.
Feel free to comment, criticize!
EDIT: Update:
--Was able to reduce the 1 liter down to about 200 mL. It took about 1.5 hr in a water bath (made sure to vent off the fumes!!). I added about 100 mL every 10 minutes or so.
-- At this point it had very low alcohol content, so I put it in the microwave for a few 30-sec bursts (still very dangerous!, don't put anything metal in their with it!) and it reduced down a bit further. Microwaving is actually an accepted procedure for extracting mangiferin.
-- Filtered with cheese cloth. About a handful of fibrous material filtered out.
-- Result was 140 mL of a very green liquid. Added more alcohol and glycerin, resulting in around 200 mL. Not an ideal ratio of liquids, but ok.
-- stored in a dark jar, will use dropper similar to minoxidil, 2 mL in morning and night.
So, achieved my goal of reducing it down to the 150 to 200 mL range. Should last me around 50 days.
Next time I'll try to (1) grind up the material better at the start and more accurately weigh it, (2) even safer venting while reducing/evaporating, (3) try adding an initial step to de-fat the material.
I already have a pillow-sack full of dried leaves waiting (quickly put all the leaves into water, scrubbed off any dirt, put into sack, and into the drier for 2 hrs on low setting).
EDIT:
I'll try to avoid using the microwave next time. First, it's dangerous, and second, unless you know for a fact that you're using less than 200W, you can fry the Mangiferin in a short amount of time.
EDIT: Sanity check verified. Exact mass (daltons) of mangiferin is 422 u, so should penetrate the skin. (less than 500 is general rule)
Looking at studies using ethanol: **According to a Chinese study, they found that the best way to extract polyphenols from mango leaves was 22:1 ratio of 60% ethanol, agitate with 50Hz wave for 1 hr, then heat to 80C for 1.5 hr. **Other studies only used water for up to 48 hr and had similar extraction compared to 50% ethanol at 60C for only one hour (constantly stirring). **The "standard" technique involves defatting with petroleum ether, then Soxhlet extraction using ethanol for 21 hr. **Lastly, one study compared different species of mango, using pure ethanol, no agitation, left for 3 weeks, and achieved (depending on species) between 0.3g to 1g of mangiferin.
So, I'm not going to do anything fancy like Soxhlet extraction, but my observations of something that can be done in-home were:
-- Use a lot of liquid if possible (though 22:1 would be wasting a lot of alcohol)
-- approx 60% ethanol is probably ideal.
-- Probably no need to wait more than 48 hr
-- when reducing, include heating to 80C for up to 1.5hr in a water bath.
So, here's what I did so far. Just a test-run (it's pretty crude!)
1) Picked about 200 grams of mango leaves (local variety in Brazil) [free!]
2) Put them in a cloth sack and dried them in my clothes drier, then let them sit for 2 days. Were fairly crisp, but still very green.
3) Put them into blender with ~250 mL of distilled water (I would have ground them but don't have anything for doing this)
4) Bought 1L household cleaning ethanol (92% by volume, no additives) [$2!!!]
5) Put the blender mix into a 1 L bottle and topped it with alcohol. Capped.
....
6) Will let sit for 1 day.
7) On day 2 will try to reduce it to around 150 mL if possible (evaporation + 1.5 hr of heating at 80C).
8) Filter.
9) Most ethanol will have evaporated, so will some more, plus some glycerin, and bottle it up. [~15% glycerin, 15% ethanol, 70% filtered mix (mostly water and polyphenols)]
Calculations:
I'm assuming that on the low end, the mixture will have 0.2g of magniferin (from 200g of leaves), but even that would give around 1000 mu-gr per mL (assuming 150 to 200 mL). So at least approximately double what the study used when compared to finasteride.
Feel free to comment, criticize!
EDIT: Update:
--Was able to reduce the 1 liter down to about 200 mL. It took about 1.5 hr in a water bath (made sure to vent off the fumes!!). I added about 100 mL every 10 minutes or so.
-- At this point it had very low alcohol content, so I put it in the microwave for a few 30-sec bursts (still very dangerous!, don't put anything metal in their with it!) and it reduced down a bit further. Microwaving is actually an accepted procedure for extracting mangiferin.
-- Filtered with cheese cloth. About a handful of fibrous material filtered out.
-- Result was 140 mL of a very green liquid. Added more alcohol and glycerin, resulting in around 200 mL. Not an ideal ratio of liquids, but ok.
-- stored in a dark jar, will use dropper similar to minoxidil, 2 mL in morning and night.
So, achieved my goal of reducing it down to the 150 to 200 mL range. Should last me around 50 days.
Next time I'll try to (1) grind up the material better at the start and more accurately weigh it, (2) even safer venting while reducing/evaporating, (3) try adding an initial step to de-fat the material.
I already have a pillow-sack full of dried leaves waiting (quickly put all the leaves into water, scrubbed off any dirt, put into sack, and into the drier for 2 hrs on low setting).
EDIT:
I'll try to avoid using the microwave next time. First, it's dangerous, and second, unless you know for a fact that you're using less than 200W, you can fry the Mangiferin in a short amount of time.
EDIT: Sanity check verified. Exact mass (daltons) of mangiferin is 422 u, so should penetrate the skin. (less than 500 is general rule)
T
TravisB
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Of course, great idea! You should try this, maybe it'll work! Of course you shouldn't take finasteride, so that you'll know if this works.
T
TravisB
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If I could, I would try this myself, but I don't know where to buy mangiferin, and Mangos doesn't grow where I live 
I think that due to almost none popularity, no one has ever tried using Mangiferin for hair loss (however studies indicate that it's very good DHT blocker in vitro), so you'll be the pioneer. But you got to make sure that you'll obtain mangiferin in a correct way.
I think that due to almost none popularity, no one has ever tried using Mangiferin for hair loss (however studies indicate that it's very good DHT blocker in vitro), so you'll be the pioneer. But you got to make sure that you'll obtain mangiferin in a correct way.
sapinho
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I did a quick Google search... Looks like the anti-inflammatory properties of Vimang (~magniferin) are related to "inhibition of iNOS and cyclooxygenase-2 expression, but not with its effect on vasoconstrictor responses". Not sure how strong it is relative to other treatments, but.......
Inhibition of iNOS (inducible-NOS) means inhibition of NO, but in the so-called "good" way (which does not so readily react to form superoxides that go on to make peroxinitrite--bad stuff).
Inhibition of COX-2 is similar to the action of curcumin, which people have tried from time-to-time, but which also inhibits lipoxygenase. Elevated COX-2 enzymatic activity has been associated with reduced hair density.
EDIT: After further study, these are very common anti-inflammatory pathways, many substances can do this. Both mangiferin and gallic acid inhibit classical NF-kappaB (NFkB) activation, gallic acid even blocks additional pathways in cancer cells.
Inhibition of iNOS (inducible-NOS) means inhibition of NO, but in the so-called "good" way (which does not so readily react to form superoxides that go on to make peroxinitrite--bad stuff).
Inhibition of COX-2 is similar to the action of curcumin, which people have tried from time-to-time, but which also inhibits lipoxygenase. Elevated COX-2 enzymatic activity has been associated with reduced hair density.
EDIT: After further study, these are very common anti-inflammatory pathways, many substances can do this. Both mangiferin and gallic acid inhibit classical NF-kappaB (NFkB) activation, gallic acid even blocks additional pathways in cancer cells.
sapinho
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Uhh,... you're an experienced poster and you assume they all have the same side effects?
Does RU have the same sides as finasteride? Not exactly--it's not in the blood stream long enough (from what I gather on this forum).
Not enough research has been done with Mangiferin but people have taken it internally for other health benefits without (reported) finasteride-like sides. This can be a good thing or obviously a sign that it won't work. In any case, there could be anti-inflammatory benefits. Plus it's dirt cheap.
Does RU have the same sides as finasteride? Not exactly--it's not in the blood stream long enough (from what I gather on this forum).
Not enough research has been done with Mangiferin but people have taken it internally for other health benefits without (reported) finasteride-like sides. This can be a good thing or obviously a sign that it won't work. In any case, there could be anti-inflammatory benefits. Plus it's dirt cheap.
sapinho
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Made my first batch today. Edited my previous post to detail any changes made to my procedure. Definitely a little scary seeing ethanol boiling in my kitchen, but I took precautions.
From the 2010 study:
Ok, so "precipitation activity..." I don't understand, but "binds to complexes [...] and this binding inhibits conversion of T to DHT" is pretty easy to understand and sounds quite similar, at least superficially, to finasteride or dutasteride.
I've already posted on the anti-inflammatory properties, and I've speculated that it's likely not to have strong side effects :dunno: , so the question is if it (my "stuff") can actually get into the hair follicle cells in real life to inhibit 5AR-II.
To be honest, it's just an experiment. I decided long ago not to use finasteride or dutasteride, and I'm against super-strong androgen receptor blockers due to the possibility of increased sensitivity.
From the 2010 study:
Ok, so "precipitation activity..." I don't understand, but "binds to complexes [...] and this binding inhibits conversion of T to DHT" is pretty easy to understand and sounds quite similar, at least superficially, to finasteride or dutasteride.
I've already posted on the anti-inflammatory properties, and I've speculated that it's likely not to have strong side effects :dunno: , so the question is if it (my "stuff") can actually get into the hair follicle cells in real life to inhibit 5AR-II.
To be honest, it's just an experiment. I decided long ago not to use finasteride or dutasteride, and I'm against super-strong androgen receptor blockers due to the possibility of increased sensitivity.
sapinho
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Nothing to update. Hairloss was already stable before I started so no perceptible changes. I'll take photos monthly.
I'm applying perhaps 4mL per day now. It's way too green, evens stains my fingers black sometimes. But such are the limitations of do-it-yourself chemicals. Could be worse; at least it doesn't smell bad and isn't sticky.
I think I may have nuked the mangiferin when I put it in the microwave for a bit in an attempt to further reduce. So to offset this I mix in some fresh powdered leaf ethanol extract into a moisturizer that I leave in for 15min before showering, every few days. Ill have to make another corrected batch of the topical.
I'm applying perhaps 4mL per day now. It's way too green, evens stains my fingers black sometimes. But such are the limitations of do-it-yourself chemicals. Could be worse; at least it doesn't smell bad and isn't sticky.
I think I may have nuked the mangiferin when I put it in the microwave for a bit in an attempt to further reduce. So to offset this I mix in some fresh powdered leaf ethanol extract into a moisturizer that I leave in for 15min before showering, every few days. Ill have to make another corrected batch of the topical.
sapinho
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Update with pictures.
RECAP:
--Mangiferin, reported 5AR inhibitor (2010 Chinese study), at 400 mu-g/mL has the nearly the same inhibitory effect as Finasterside at 50 nM. 50 nM being the ~IC value of finasteride for the in-vitro model used.
--Mango bark extract "Vimang" (Cuban product containing 7% mangiferin) dietary suppliment finds use as a powerful antioxidant, targeted towards older population.
--Wide range of additional research; anti-cancer, anti-diabetic, anti-inflammatory similar to Curcumim in this last respect, i.e., NF-kB inhibition, down regulation of iNOS, COX-2, TNF-alpha, and IL-6.
--Anti-cancer claims attributed to increased TGF-beta mRNA levels--I can give no clear answer in regard to whether this will slow down or kill fast growing "healthy" hair cells.
--Mangiferin content of Mango tree leaves varies between 0.1g to 3g per 100g depending on the tree variety and extraction solvent. Younger leaves are thought to have higher content.
CHANGES
--Recently, due to dark green color of the leaf extract, I prefer applying 5mL for 20 min before shower, mix another 1mL with shampoo Head&Shoulders and let sit for 10 min then rinse. 2X PER DAY.
--Current extraction method: 100g leaves, powdered, 200mL water+1.5L 95% ethanol set aside for 2 days. Filter, set aside, and mix pulp in 500mL ethanol and heat in water bath 80C to reduce (heat may extract more Mangiferin), filter and mix in with the first filtered extract. Reduce the combined filtered ethanol extracts (~2L) for 1h+ in water bath 80C until reduced to ~100 mL or until almost all ethanol is cooked off (leave at least some ethanol). Turn this into a topical solution by adding glycerin, water (from additionally boiling the pulp if you prefer), and ethanol until 150 to 200 mL is achieved. Should have an almost black appearance, substantial amounts of green will wash out in the shower with just a few mL applied to scalp. I can buy ethanol for a very low price in Brazil, those without Mango trees or cheap ethanol I suggest making a topical out of Vimang if possible.
Regrowth noticed in last month corresponding with my (improved) second batch of Mango leaf extract. I actually ran out of minoxidil from mid-November to mid-December while awaiting a shipment from the US.
I'm a minoxidil user since '08, but had a huge shed during a 5 month lapse following a move to Brazil in '10 also accompanied with stress and redness of scalp. I had continuously used minoxidil and Keto for 10 months prior to starting this experiment which had already given regrowth but normalized (per the first picture below), so the extra bump in regrowth I attribute to the extract. I have slight thining on my hairline which had no real signs of improvement.
Photo, September '11
Photos from December '11
RECAP:
--Mangiferin, reported 5AR inhibitor (2010 Chinese study), at 400 mu-g/mL has the nearly the same inhibitory effect as Finasterside at 50 nM. 50 nM being the ~IC value of finasteride for the in-vitro model used.
--Mango bark extract "Vimang" (Cuban product containing 7% mangiferin) dietary suppliment finds use as a powerful antioxidant, targeted towards older population.
--Wide range of additional research; anti-cancer, anti-diabetic, anti-inflammatory similar to Curcumim in this last respect, i.e., NF-kB inhibition, down regulation of iNOS, COX-2, TNF-alpha, and IL-6.
--Anti-cancer claims attributed to increased TGF-beta mRNA levels--I can give no clear answer in regard to whether this will slow down or kill fast growing "healthy" hair cells.
--Mangiferin content of Mango tree leaves varies between 0.1g to 3g per 100g depending on the tree variety and extraction solvent. Younger leaves are thought to have higher content.
CHANGES
--Recently, due to dark green color of the leaf extract, I prefer applying 5mL for 20 min before shower, mix another 1mL with shampoo Head&Shoulders and let sit for 10 min then rinse. 2X PER DAY.
--Current extraction method: 100g leaves, powdered, 200mL water+1.5L 95% ethanol set aside for 2 days. Filter, set aside, and mix pulp in 500mL ethanol and heat in water bath 80C to reduce (heat may extract more Mangiferin), filter and mix in with the first filtered extract. Reduce the combined filtered ethanol extracts (~2L) for 1h+ in water bath 80C until reduced to ~100 mL or until almost all ethanol is cooked off (leave at least some ethanol). Turn this into a topical solution by adding glycerin, water (from additionally boiling the pulp if you prefer), and ethanol until 150 to 200 mL is achieved. Should have an almost black appearance, substantial amounts of green will wash out in the shower with just a few mL applied to scalp. I can buy ethanol for a very low price in Brazil, those without Mango trees or cheap ethanol I suggest making a topical out of Vimang if possible.
Regrowth noticed in last month corresponding with my (improved) second batch of Mango leaf extract. I actually ran out of minoxidil from mid-November to mid-December while awaiting a shipment from the US.
I'm a minoxidil user since '08, but had a huge shed during a 5 month lapse following a move to Brazil in '10 also accompanied with stress and redness of scalp. I had continuously used minoxidil and Keto for 10 months prior to starting this experiment which had already given regrowth but normalized (per the first picture below), so the extra bump in regrowth I attribute to the extract. I have slight thining on my hairline which had no real signs of improvement.
Photo, September '11
Photos from December '11