could dutasteride leave us brain dead....

[Goingat20]

I have been reading up on using steroids (for muscle building purposes). I have come across a study which was done in the US they clain that because some steroids raise test levels high they can damage nerve cells. Now i have read that dutasteride also raises test levels a lot in the head, could it also affect nerve cells? This might sound stupid, but just thought id see what everyone thinks[/quote]

 

[RSG]

Doesn't propecia raise test levels aswell?

 

[CCS]

only a little. Not as much as dutasteride. dutasteride raises test levels locally in the brain. finasteride does not. But I'd think DHT would do the same thing test does, so reducing it would balance the test increase.

 

[MPBWarrior]

only a little. Not as much as dutasteride. dutasteride raises test levels locally in the brain. finasteride does not. But I'd think DHT would do the same thing test does, so reducing it would balance the test increase.

but isn't DHT something like 30 times stronger and more potent than testosterone?

 

[CCS]

If that is a factor, then we'd go brain dead from a lack of androgens, not from extra testosterone.

people taking 2.5mg per day for 6 months did not die. But they do have a higher side effect profile, from the study Bryan mailed me.

 

[Goingat20]

The study, it was in yesterdays new paper (hopefully i still got it) says that increase in test kills nerve cells in brain

 

[stax]

yeah but how much test kills nerve cells? Even if dutasteride raised testosterone by 40% that could still be very much in normal range. I think it would pose a threat for people taking buckets of steroids, not dutasteride. Steroids can increase test by more that 1500%!!!


dutasteride raises scalp testosterone but does it increase actual brain testosterone? sebum is in the scalp but not the brain right? Is it the same thing for the scalp testosterone increase by dutasteride? Simply just in the scalp?

 

[Goingat20]

Your probably right stax, steroids and dutasteride is a different story. Hows your hair going? Really interested to see how RU is going?
Thanks

 

[stax]

I only used Ru for 1 month so i cant say.


All i know is that switching from finasteride to dutasteride for me worked great and really fast. I took it for a few months basically EOD, and i didnt even use minoxidil or proxiphen in this time period, mabye once per week of minoxidil cause i ran out and just didnt bother re-ordering, and i got thickening of existing hair, and some more terminal hairs at the hairline. I could see little hairs in the norwood 0 area that looked like they were going to turn terminal if i stayed on dutasteride and especially if i got back on minoxidil and Proxiphen ( which i just re-started ). I literally didnt care about hairloss and still dont. I was on all types of crazy sh*t in the past, going crazy about hairloss, but dutasteride alone worked faster and better than all of them. So my new regimen is going to be minoxidil foam in the day and night, and proxiphen cream at night after minoxidil foam, and dutasteride EOD.


I got a puffy face, fatigue, some sore joints, and a few abdominal pains from dutasteride, so i stopped about 2 weeks ago. Im going to restart using Milk Thistle every day for liver protection, and use a produc called AIMF which is a natural estrogen inhibitor that works as good as the synthetic drugs. Im pretty sure that the rise in estrogen along with the lack of DHT were the cause of my bloated face, fatigue, and sore joints.

 

[kevinme]

Stax, why not use Green Tea, Grape Seed extract, Kudzu Root, Pomegranate extract, DIM and get more benefits?

 

[RSG]

I was just wondering how much finasteride rasies estrogen levels by? does anyone know?

 

[Felk]

I only used Ru for 1 month so i cant say.


All i know is that switching from finasteride to dutasteride for me worked great and really fast. I took it for a few months basically EOD, and i didnt even use minoxidil or proxiphen in this time period, mabye once per week of minoxidil cause i ran out and just didnt bother re-ordering, and i got thickening of existing hair, and some more terminal hairs at the hairline. I could see little hairs in the norwood 0 area that looked like they were going to turn terminal if i stayed on dutasteride and especially if i got back on minoxidil and Proxiphen ( which i just re-started ). I literally didnt care about hairloss and still dont. I was on all types of crazy $#iT in the past, going crazy about hairloss, but dutasteride alone worked faster and better than all of them. So my new regimen is going to be minoxidil foam in the day and night, and proxiphen cream at night after minoxidil foam, and dutasteride EOD.


I got a puffy face, fatigue, some sore joints, and a few abdominal pains from dutasteride, so i stopped about 2 weeks ago. Im going to restart using Milk Thistle every day for liver protection, and use a produc called AIMF which is a natural estrogen inhibitor that works as good as the synthetic drugs. Im pretty sure that the rise in estrogen along with the lack of DHT were the cause of my bloated face, fatigue, and sore joints.

I also get abdominal pains with finasteride, just like you did with dutasteride. Sometimes they're pretty bad actually, I'm going to have to lower my dose I think. I still hope they're temporary, because I'm getting fatty nipples and potentially gyno i think! My weird heart pains i got before were probably gyno, im thinking. Ill have to check more out on this, though.

 

[powersam]

you ever try the dutasteride i sent you Felk? give you the same pains?

 

[Bryan]

I was just wondering how much finasteride rasies estrogen levels by? does anyone know?

According to the PDR, about the same as testosterone. Around 10%.

 

[CCS]

can extra estrogen actually cause joint pain? I have a lot of joint pain, but I think from injuries from long ago.

I'm thinking of traking an oral estrogen reducer, and dumping a bunch of estrogen like stuff like beta-sis on my head, for the best of both.

Bryan, are there good and bad estrogens, for hair? Or are some estrogens just worse for gyno?

 

[CCS]

Stax, why not use Green Tea, Grape Seed extract, Kudzu Root, Pomegranate extract, DIM and get more benefits?

That would be my first approach. I'm not convinced they reduce estrogen. At least the posted studies were in vitro, and did not give oral doses. And we know all the side effects are good. I don't even know what that AIM stuff is, or what side effects it might have.

 

[stax]

kevinme, why would i wate my money taking 100 supplements that arent going to work as good as 1 pump of AIMF per day? AIMF isnt a drug it does contain a bit of Andro but it works as good and even better that Arimidex, Aromasin,ect for tons of people on elitefitness.com

I tried all that green tea, blah, blah, blah, and it didnt help my hair or reducing the effects of estrogen to keep my bloat off. Yeah, i take one cap of Flax Lignan and Green Tea Extract per day now for the health benifits, but nothing more.


ive done tons of reaearch on AIMF at elitefitness, and there are only side effects from using too much, like sore joints from lack of estrogen. Thats it. The key is to use 1 pump per day.


About my sore joints, it could have been from dutasteride inhibiting type 1 DHT, of it could have been that the extra estrogen was over powering the trstosterone. Who knows, im in my prime and the only time ive ever gotton joint pains was when i was on dutasteride. Ive been off of it for 2 weeks and using finasteride for now and im not getting any pains.


When i was on dutasteride i would take it EOD sometimes, and sometimes every 3 days. I was pretty inconsistant so i dont think dutasteride reached its full level in my blood yet. It was building up though and i started to get these sides just before i stopped it, hence why i stopped it.


I might just stay on finasteride or give dutasteride one last shot with Milk Thistle and AIMF.

 

[CCS]

How much andro? Enough to fail a steroids test? Doesn't andro cause hair loss?

 

[stax]

Not that much andro to my understanding, you'll have to research yourself im going to be extremely busy and wont get a chance to post for a long time.


Andro converts to testosterone yes, but if your using finasteride Or dutasteride it wont convert to DHT. Our bodies produce andro naturally just like test. but andro doesnt convert straight to DHT. The amount of a testosterone increase shouldnt even make a difference, especially on dutasteride. Its extremely powerfull at reducing DHT.


I used to be crazy like you guys thinking every androgen related hormone under the sun caused hairloss, like DHEA, Andro, Test,ect.


Well why did i get great results with dutasteride in around only using it for 3 months? I got increased body and facial hair growth from dutasteride, and since i did lifting everyday for my job, i gained some muscles in my arms, and especially the forarm. I have good genetics for that though but still if all this testosterone and crap caused hairloss, then why did i get great results? Why do those people in the Repulic never go bald yet they produce testosterone, andro, DHEA, ect? DHT is the MAIN cause got hairloss.


That frontal thinning thing i find hard to beleive. Ride out your shed even if i takes 5 months, shave your head in the meantime.


When i started finasteride after 2-3 months my hair looked like sh*t, all diffused,ect. But at the 10-11 month mark BAM! My hair grew in WAY thicker and grew really fast all in this one cycle. If you can lose hair fast you can also regrow hair fast. Ive had terminal hairs at my hairline grow in overnight it seems, just outta nowhere.

 

[Felk]

you ever try the dutasteride i sent you Felk? give you the same pains?

I tried it for a week at once per week and the pains seemed to not be there, but it wasn't a very long trial. It seemed to be recieved by my body better than finasteride, but unless these weird pains are not temporary I'd much prefer to stick with finasteride.

I don't know, it seems so much safer, and i was worried about the frontal shedding if it's true. There really aren't anywhere near the number of "great results on dutasteride alone" posts as there are for finasteride (countless ones)