Dani_uk's story - (Some sincere advice would be great, 30)

[Dani_uk]

Hi guys and girls (?).

I need some sound advice. I am now 30 and have been losing hair since the age of 18. It has really ruined my social life and interaction with family.

About 3 years ago I decided to do somthing about it. My pattern was that of male pattern baldness with hair thining at the crown and then I had hair loss at the temples and the egdes at the hairline to give a 'v' shape. On top of this, there was diffuse hair loss overall. I went to see a clinic in London and they put me on 12.5 % minoxidil with azelic acid and propecia. I follow these religously even today with 1mg propecia a day and 1 ml of the lotion at night.

Come 6 monhts, after initial shedding, I was totally amazed at the results. I had good coverage and the crown and sides were filling in. New hair growth and denser coverage. However since that period the slower shedding has continued and hair still falls out quite slowly. Now coming upto the 3 year mark, I can clearly see that even though I have more hair than before the treatment started, the hair doesnt grow as fast and it appears less dense- over the three year period. I am going back into my shell again and I feel quite sad. The hairs that were initially thicker on the temples are now again becoming fine.

I need some advice, is there anything else I can do? I need to know a few things...

I know the combination is working (minoxidil and propecia), but whats making the hairs less dense and fall out since that initial 6month-1year period ?

I am considering moving on to dutasteride, has anyone made the change with similar repsonce to propecia?

Thanking you in advance...

 

[JDW]

Re: Some sincere advice would be great..

Perhaps it could be the minoxidil losing effectiveness or a slowdown in the finasteride dht inhibition...How bad is it since the initial success? pperhaps some photos would help if you have any? Perhaps you will also recover from this or is the actual hairs decreasing in quality rathr than shedding?

 

[Dani_uk]

Re: Some sincere advice would be great..

Thanks for replying,

I dont have any pictures- due to this very reason. I dont know whats happening in terms of hair though, i would speculate the hair are getting thinner.

Do you think many people have experienced this?

 

[Hans Gruber]

Re: Some sincere advice would be great..

Thanks for replying,

I dont have any pictures- due to this very reason. I dont know whats happening in terms of hair though, i would speculate the hair are getting thinner.

Do you think many people have experienced this?

i guess the amount of time finasteride is effective in fighting dht ranges from person to person,if you havent changed your regimen at all then i can only really see that being the answer.


maybe ask for some advice in the dutasteride forum to see how others have made the switch

 

[rusty_y2k2]

Re: Some sincere advice would be great..

I would perhaps consider adding a topical anti-dht/androgen into the regimen... what is totally up to you! there's many to choose from (think along the lines of revivogen, spironolactone, prox-n? perhaps take a look at the discussion on peppermint/licorice home made topicals on this board...)

Minoxidil never loses it's effectiveness as I understand it, the miniturisation process just eventually overpowers it which is what finasteride should be preventing. It's likely that the finasteride is losing the battle and needs a bit of a boost from a topical standpoint.

Going onto dutasteride is a risky choice at the moment in my opinion - i still don't think enough is known about it as a hairloss treatment. Why be a guinea pig if you can avoid it? It doesn't sound like you're losing at a fast rate so I'd definately give the topical approach a go for at least 6 months before thinking about switching to dutasteride.

 

[RaginDemon]

Re: Some sincere advice would be great..

I like to see people who consider dutasteride SO dangerous when they are already on finasteride.

 

[rusty_y2k2]

Re: Some sincere advice would be great..

It's not so much a case of considering it dangerous, just unproven. In theory it should work as well/better than, but as you have to agree theory doesn't always pan out, especially in something so complex and with as many variables as hairloss.

As regards side effects/danger, I imagine that if you experience no sides on finasteride chances are sides on dutasteride will be minimal... so I agree with you in that sense.

 

[RaginDemon]

its a risk one has to take.

 

[iamnaked]

Considering that there are documented examples of individuals with a complete deficiency of DHT living long productive lives, and that dutasteride has gone through trials, i too am amazed at the amount of people who think it's going to f*** them up.

 

[Dani_uk]

Guys, I cant thank you enough.I feel much better that Im not alone.

Maybe somone can clear this up for me...

I always thought hairloss is due to three reasons and always thought that minodixl loses its strength?

1- blood supply-minoxidil?

2- Minitization process-minoxidil?

3- DHT binding to the follicle- Propecia?

In my case the hair loss has slowed down- but still happens and I can see that over 3 years- but slower. I dont know if the minoxidil has stopped working or Propecia?

Can somone kindly clarify that for me.

Thankjs again guys- sorry for the late delay- Im in the UK.

 

[rusty_y2k2]

From Dr Lee's Myth page:

H.3 Myth: Topical minoxidil causes tolerance

Wrong. Minoxidil doesn't really cause a tolerance, i.e. as long as you apply minoxidil, it will extend the anagen phase of the hair follicles. However, the amount of scalp hair loss reversal is maximized at about two to three years. It's unlikely that more hair follicles will be recruited to produce a terminal hair shaft again after that time unless you increase the concentration of minoxidil delivered to the follicles and/or take measures to protect the follicles from DHT. There seems to be a threshold level at which hair follicles can be recruited to grow a terminal hair shaft again. Using a high concentration topical minoxidil ensures the best results. Some patients will be able to maintain the hair on the scalp with continued treatment, but most patients will gradually see some thinning again. Patients who stay on treatment with topical minoxidil definitely do much better than untreated patients, but the positive results will decline over time.

Basically Minoxidil helps a hair to grow beyond what it normally could with it's state of miniturisation. It is not however protecting it from the miniturisation process... without finasteride or similar, dht continues to attack and destroy the follicle. Eventually the follicle becomes too damaged for minoxidil to help significantly.

Now you of course are on finasteride, but given the above information it would seem like it is losing effectiveness in you (the time if remains truly effective in people seems to vary massively from my anecdotal reading) which is allowing the miniturization process to continue albeit at a probably much reduced rate. That's why I suggest it's time to throw something else in to shore up the defenses - whether or not that involves moving to dutasteride is a judgement call only you can ultimately make at the moment.

Do you use nizoral out of interest?

 

[Dani_uk]

Cant thank you guys enough...

I dont use Nizrol, I initally noticed that shampooing caused me to itch too much and I have to use a very mild shampoo. I only shampoo 1-2 times a week.

I am thinking about giving dutasteride a shot...

 

[iamnaked]

According to how I understand it, DHT binds to hair follicles, providing the signal for them to start to miniaturise.

I don't think minoxidil is really anything to do with improved bloodflow. AFAIK it increases the thickness of hairs, and the proportion of hairs in the growing phase at any one time (and the length of the growing phase), meaning that at certain times of the month your hair will look thicker.

The caveat to this is that the affected areas seem to synchronise. I.e., there will come a point when a lot of them reach their resting phase and drop out. This is the much dreaded and discussed minoxidil shed. I will also add that I am a user for 2 years. My initial results were fantastic, but they have now been tempered with some skepticism.

My own personal beliefs are that any benefit from minoxidil taper off after a few years of use, leaving you with minoxidil-dependant hair that will suffer the mother of all sheds when you stop using minoxidil. This will leave your hair looking like sh*t for a while. Then it will stabilise to a condition as if you had never used it before.

 

[rusty_y2k2]

Cant thank you guys enough...

I dont use Nizrol, I initally noticed that shampooing caused me to itch too much and I have to use a very mild shampoo. I only shampoo 1-2 times a week.

I am thinking about giving dutasteride a shot...

for shampoo try T-gel with coal tar - I found it more gentle than nizoral, but was good at stopping any itch and there is some evidence that the coal tar helps prevent DHT formation. Obviously it's not going to make or break a regimen, especially if you're only using it a couple times a week but every little helps.

If you do give dutasteride a shot post back with how you get on, I know I for one am always interested in hearing the experiences of people who switch from finasteride to dutasteride.

 

[Dani_uk]

Isnt it true -the hair that minoxidil grows remains as long as you use it?

Also, rusty, have you made the switch? Or do you know anyone who has made the switch if so what happend?

I know people usually comment on how bad somthing is, rather than appreciating when it comes to forums- so thats another thing Im having to weigh up. Ive seen a lot of BAD dutasteride reviews.

 

[RaginDemon]

down the road, minoxidil affect will start deminishing and all the minoxidil-depedent hair will gonna fall.