DHT lowered, Testosterone increased, your hair?

[bombscience]

So can someone please dispel the crap that I have been reading about increased testosterone as a byproduct of DHT reduction having a negative impact on frontal hair loss?

In my case, frontal hair loss (not recession) is my primary problem. A Dutasteride treatment has been shown increase my scalp serum Testosterone by around 105%, while reduce my DHT by 90%. Dr. Lee once told me that Estrogen is a positive hormone for hair follicles.

Someone please make sense of this madness? Is there any evidence that the large spike in Testosterone could somehow negatively impact hairloss (especially frontal)?

 

[eldorado]

My hypothesis is that at the start (first 1-2 months or so) DHT levels are mostly lowered in the general interior of your system then work out???

Maybe when your testosterone is elevated and the scalp 5AR isnt inhibited as much then you would theoretically have higher localized scalp DHT... until those 5ARs are treated and inhibited more....

But I wouldnt think that dutasteride would be worse then finasteride in this regard since dutasteride inhibits more of the type 1 5AR, which is found in the skin...


I myself use 2.5percent ethylalcohol/water/glycerin on my temples along with 2mg of dutasteride and 25mg of spironolactone orally once per week, and so far I have some vellous hairs growing on my previous bald temples... spironolactone orally increases estrogen? and increases the chance of gyno greatly...


From:

http://www.hair2004.com/04_program_final.htm

B2.5 from HairAbstracts_Teil_I_2004.pdf ...talks about how testosterone\epitestosterone ratios are higher in male pattern baldness subjects over non-male pattern baldness subjects...
______________

I guess you could theorize that when the testosterone\epitestosterone ratio is right then this is a signaling to male pattern baldness hair follicales.... An elavation even if small could just create a stronger signal...

Regards,
Brian W

 

[youngguy_uk]

im interested in oral spironolactone...any pills that can help hairloss actually...holding off on topicals for the time being...

how much does oral spironolactone cost? why do you take it once a week, shouldnt it be daily? and what exactly does it do as compared to finasteride? can it compliment finasteride in a regimen.

thanks.

 

[Guest]

Whoa now youngguy_uk. Taking oral spironolactone is like asking for gyno.

 

[Deaner]

Taking oral spironolactone is like turning yourself into a chick through a pill. Easy there cowboy (soon to be cowgirl???)

 

[absmon]

spironolactone taken orally is very potent and is only prescribed to women. When women are given this for hairloss it has proven very successful at reversing the balding/thinning. I guess, it makes a lot of sense for those of us taking Dr. Lee's spironolactone lotions because of its very high success rate with women.

 

[eldorado]

Yea supposibly it was used in men, in low doses, to treat high blood pressure, if I remember correctly... And in those cases it was used for only a few weeks....

Ive read of other men who _took_ 100mg a day eventually got gyno within a few months. 50mg daily took a few more months after that. So I was thinking 25mg weekly would just ease the hormones to the correct ratios...I probably will only take one 25mg tab per week for a month and a half... Then in another 3 months or so I'll take one 25mg tab once a week again... Ive never heard anyone to do this, so Im on my own, but at least it makes sense to me.

Its pretty cheap, like 12 dollars shipped at in house pharmacy for 100 25mg tabs... Its even cheaper in the 50 and 100mg form, but usually you have to buy more... But armidex, what I think one uses to reverse gyno, is really really expensive.

Read about its side affects in the transgender forums, it seems like they say take 100mg daily for a few months and you'll start to develop tits, along with nut ache... Also read about oral estridol-17a sp?... I have no idea or anything to say about this...

I'd say read up, not only personal experiences, but more scientific abstracts then anything. And if your going to try something crazy like spironolactone which messes with your hormones then get blood work done before hand. Dont do or do something just because it worked or didnt work for them.

Good luck man,
Brian W

 

[youngguy_uk]

sh*t, i had no idea. so what exactly does it change in your hormone levels? is topical spironolactone safe then? and does this mean if taken orally its more effective than propecia? does this say anything about its effectiveness when used topically? thanks.

 

[eldorado]

i wanna say it lowers your testosterone and raise your estrogen or epitestosterone, not a great thing to do if you dont have to...

The word you should know is efficacy, a mixture of safety and effectiveness. Propecia's efficacy is high because it works in a lot of people and is relatively safe. spironolactone's efficacy is low because it would work in a lot of people, but at the same time turn them into women, not safe at all...

Topically it works as an androgen antagonist, it competes with DHT around the receptors, or something like that... Search the web, this forum, or hairsite.com's forum for spironolactone.gif its a study in its effectiveness, Bryan Shelton keeps it in his webspace. I think it works ok, but thats just me... I think its completely safe, but I havent read anything about that.

 

[youngguy_uk]

maybe it could be looked into if theres a dose of spironolactone where gyno isnt much of an issue but its still quite effective on hairloss...could be complimentary to finasteride in a regimen then...?

anyone know of anyone else on this forum or elsewhere actually been on spironolactone? what results did they report? and taken topically, how can it work safely there...

 

[eldorado]

Me here to... someone reply on a very low dose spironolactone schedule please respond...

I personally wont think you will or ill hear anything... ppl, esp ppl that want a quick fix will look towards whats proven... Even if its something that was a side affect of something else (BPH) or what someone else took (odd unmerited topicals) inaddition to a hormone fluctuater like propeica or something.... Ppl like the FDA and trial research for one reason, because it was proven in a controled environment, for the most respect those studies should be loved, but hair loss is most likely a simplier solution that the USA wont abide with.

Id say if your about to spend 40 bucks+ on something like finasterde or duter then you should at least take that money and get a blood test towards your hormone levels. Then perhaps adjust them towards what you had when you had hair... Maybe even get a blood test upon a younger cousin and compare the results (of course there will be things like fat %, blood pressure, body mass, and what not) but at least you could see what to strive for, and then maybe work towards it smartly... Yes I am saying that finasteride is not smart and i will take it, for at least until my drugs are gone, and I can moderate my hormone levels smartly.......

Im absolutely saying that when we were all 14 years old we had thick growing hair, then something... like our hormones fucked it all up... DHT is just a secondary response to our hormones... If we could get a cheap HIGH EFFICACY hormone controler then we would have the situation resolved....

Ah geez im soundin like a spironolactone pusher or some kind of anabolic steroids pusher... i dunno, i just wanna know why i had thick hair then and not now! And by god damn I damn sure its f*****g hormones (or something that changed its working around 16), because before I started losin hair I had a mild form of gyno.... under my nipples I had little bumps..... they went away, then 3-4 years later I started losin hair...

Maybe its just me and my golden path to shitdom... I be there in a hand basket, lata

Im out!!!,

Brian Welteroth wishin yall good luck and play nicely!



-damn its late, i guess i still mean and hope what i said is cool