Diffuse treatment recommendation (pics)

[S_man_9]

Hello. I just became a member of this site. I have been a lurker for a while now and have learned a lot here. I am 25 years old and first noticed my hair thinning a few years ago when someone politely pointed it out lol. It has progressively gotten worse and lately I notice there more shedding than normal especially when washing my hair. I end up with 30 or so hairs in my hands....not good. I came to the conclusion that I need to do something about it. I am always wearing a hat now as its almost impossible to pull off a haircut to go out without it showcasing the excessive thinning. I would like to hear from all of you veterans here. I guess my options are...

Rogaine
Propecia
Xandrox
Spro
Folligen
Nizoral

The only thing I have tried is Nizoral 1% and havent noticed much. I probly havent been using it as much as I should. I would prefer to stay away from Propecia for 2 reasons......relying on a Rx and the possible interfearance with gains in the gym. I heard that since it blocks DHT it will hinder muscle gains which is important to me since I compete in bodybuilding shows. So I was thinking Xandrox and Nizoral. What do you guys think? I havent heard much from the others. Imput? Im nervous about the excessive initial shedding with the Rogaine.

So its either stack some of these products and hope for the best or Im gonna end up buzzing my hair short which brings up another opinion. Do I have the right head shape for it and how it will affect the way my hair looks. I appreciate all the help. Thanks in advance.

Here are a couple pics. I usually kind of flip my hair up in the front (almost spike it) but can no longer really pull it off anymore. Tends to look way to thin and transparent.

 

[zeroheat]

Dude, what's it gonna be.. your hair or your muscle? I'd take hair any day of the week. You need to get on propecia because it's the ONLY thing that will stop/prevent further loss. Rogaine/Xandrox will only help you grow more hair but won't stop the root of the problem. Get on big 3 (finesteride/rogaine/nizoral) and buy some hair concealer to get you through the shedding etc. You need to start asap.

 

[S_man_9]

I would prefer to stay away from Propecia for 2 reasons......relying on a Rx and the possible interfearance with gains in the gym. I heard that since it blocks DHT it will hinder muscle gains which is important to me since I compete in bodybuilding shows.

That is a myth,
Finasteride blocks the enzyme, Alpha 5 Reductase type 2 (A5R2). A5R2 is the enzyme which is responsible for Testosterone's conversion into DHT, by suppressing A5R2 there is less Testosterone converted into DHT, which results in more available free ranging Testosterone. This is beneficial to muscle development, because Testosterone is needed for Muscle growth, not DHT.

You are probably familar with the ''big three''= Finasteride, Minoxidil, and Nizoral shampoo. I would recomend this combination because it addresses every facet of hairloss causes.

Finasteride- Blocks DHT production and reverses hair minaturization, hair minaturization leads to the death of the hair follicle

Minoxidil- Is a Vasodilator which increases scalp circulation which stimulates hair growth.

Nizoral- Retards scalp inflamation and itching


Remember you must take treatments daily for as long as you want your hair, and it takes an entire year to see full benefits so patience is key, good luck!

isnt xandrox camparable to using propecia and rogaine? Someone I know said they actually startd getting symptoms of gyno while on propecia.

 

[S_man_9]

so what is the best approach to getting an Rx for propecia? Are there any cheaper alternative brands? Also when and how should I take all these product for maximum results?

 

[KANGA]

If you go the "legit" route through a doctor, if he's a cool doctor, get him to prescribe Proscar.

As you may know, Proscar is a 5mg dose of Finasteride. Propecia is 1mg. Proscar costs a little bit more than Propecia, but if you split the pill into 5 pieces (there's guides how to do it on these forums and the internet), you'll be saving a lot of money.

As for effectiveness, the "Big 3" (finasteride, minoxidil, Nizoral) is your best bet.

 

[S_man_9]

so would I just go to a random doctor or a hair specialist like bosley? Also will buzzing my hair short look ok in the meantime or will it exentuate the thinness?

 

[question7]

DHT doesn't have affect on muscle cells.

 

[timbo]

Xandrox has never been scientifically proven effective, their has ever been any proper clinical trials for xandrox, so there's no way of knowing its Effectiveness. I'm sure the Minoxidil in xandrox is legitamate, but topical Finasteride has not been proven effective.

Actually topical finasteride has been proven to work, Merck just decided that oral finasteride would sell better because it's easier, but Xandrox doesn't use it anyway...Xandrox uses Azelaic acid to inhibit DHT. Azelaic acid has been proven to inhibit DHT (in vitro) in a study found in the british journal of medicine.

S man 9, I would reccomend using finasteride, in-conjunction with the xandrox formula, and nizoral.

Finasteride is really the best thing to combat general thinning. If you add the minoxidil and the potential DHT inhibition of the azelaic acid found in xandrox, you could expect some serious results.

I was getting side effects from propecia after 5 months of usage, but i have maintained my hair for 8 months using xandrox. I really think it works.

 

[timbo]

Actually the azelaic acid in xandrox has nothing to do with absorption or delivering minoxidil. Dr. Lee uses an ethyl alcohol base for absorption. Azelaic acid was proven to inhibit dht, but the test was never conducted on an actual human scalp. There are also alot of hairloss products that use azelaic acid for dht-inhibition, including Revivogen (which hairlosstalk.com endorses) Here's the article found in the British Journal of Medicine about azelaic acid...

Stamatiadis. 1988;119: 627-632
http://minoxidil.com/subpages/journal_a ... ition.html

BTW, did you just make up that whole "delivery system" thing on the spot? You should research before you post on message boards. This is exactly how false rumors get started...

 

[S_man_9]

so what results should I expect to see and in what amount of time? If I end up having adverse side affects from the proscar is there any alternative or will I be screwed? Also if I end up getting good results and am happy with what I have, can I slowly discontinue minoxidil or do I have to stay on that for life as well? Thanks.

 

[S_man_9]

also I went to a hair specialist hoping to get a prescription for proscar but he said he cant prescribe me anything. He did put one of those cameras on my scalp and said I should expect to get great results since I still have a lot of hair, its just very weak/thin. Im having a hard time finding a dr to prescribe me. Ive called general doctors and dermatologists. I ask to make an appointment and they ask for what then said they dont do that? Any suggestions?

 

[timbo]

Dr. Rassman is obviously not more qualified when it comes to information on xandrox or azelaic acid. The only thing the he knows about is propecia and rogaine, and that is all you'll ever hear him talk about.

I have been reading his blog and he is literally clueless when it comes to treatmens that are "non-FDA approved." He probably was thinking of retinoic acid or something...

 

[S_man_9]

so what results should I expect to see and in what amount of time? If I end up having adverse side affects from the proscar is there any alternative or will I be screwed? Also if I end up getting good results and am happy with what I have, can I slowly discontinue minoxidil or do I have to stay on that for life as well? Thanks.

With Minoxidil you should start to see results around the fourth month of treatment, but full results will take a year of daily use. With Finasteride it takes an entire year to see results for most people, although the drug starts working around month three.

Finasteride and Minoxidil are the only hairloss treatments proven effective by the FDA. So if Proscar gives you side effects your options will be slim. But remember side effects are rare, they don't happen to most people.

Minoxidil is a lifelong commitment, hair follicles become ''addicted'' to Minoxidil, if you stop using Minoxidil you will lose any hair you gained from it and possibly additional hairs that became Minoxidl dependent.

I thought that u can eventually taper off the minoxidil once your happy with the results and continue on the finasteride which will help u keep the gains? Is this wrong? Once u start them u have to stay on both for life? Also should you use finasteride for a few months before incorporating minoxidil or can u start both at the same time?

 

[S_man_9]

You cannot taper off of Minoxidil, you must take it for as long as you wish to keep your hair, Finasteride and Minoxidil have two seperate methods of action, so the gains that you make from either drug are independant from one another. In other words, don't start Minoxidil unless you want to take it for the life of your hair. You can start both drugs at once, if you would like, or you could take the finasteride for a year first, to see how that worked by itself, it's really up to you.

I thought finasteride was to just keep what u have and minoxidil was to regrow?

 

[JWM]

U thought wrong. Finfighter is correct.

 

[maup]

if you stop using Minoxidil you will lose any hair you gained from it and possibly additional hairs that became Minoxidl dependent.

Wow i didn't know that additional hairs becomes minoxidil dependent. I used minoxidil for 6 years but stopped about 1.5 years ago and lost a whole lot of hair in the first couple of months. I knew i would lose the hairs i gained through minoxidil but not the healthy additional hairs. So you mean that if i never used minoxidil i would have more hair now?

 

[timbo]

s man 9, Propecia lowers the levels of DHT in your scalp, rogaine stimulates new growth in the follicle despite the facts that DHT is destroying it. A good way to think of it- Rogaine is life support for the follicle, propecia is an actual treatment.

If your happy to keep the hair you have and perhaps thicken it, than you might only need propecia (and nizoral). However, I would recommend both because hair loss tends to always get worse. I guess it depends if you have time to apply the rogaine (or minoxidil) 2x per day.

 

[JWM]

if you stop using Minoxidil you will lose any hair you gained from it and possibly additional hairs that became Minoxidl dependent.

Wow i didn't know that additional hairs becomes minoxidil dependent. I used minoxidil for 6 years but stopped about 1.5 years ago and lost a whole lot of hair in the first couple of months. I knew i would lose the hairs i gained through minoxidil but not the healthy additional hairs. So you mean that if i never used minoxidil i would have more hair now?

Theoretically yes.

Actually, no. You WILL shed a lot initially, but eventually your hair will settle to a point as if you've never applied minoxidil at all. Healthy hairs that are not triggered to fall due to male pattern baldness are not permanently affected by minoxidil.

As Timbo says, finasteride is a treatment, where minoxidil is more of a life support, or a chemical cosmetic if you will.

 

[Nuli]

DHT DOES play a role in muscle growth, not as important as testosterone but it still has a part. Also has a role in metabolism/controlling body fat.

 

[Nuli]

DHT DOES play a role in muscle growth, not as important as testosterone but it still has a part. Also has a role in metabolism/controlling body fat.

There's a reason thet bodybuilders shoot up with synthetic Testosterone, not synthetic DHT.

Can you not read? There is also DHT based steroids that result in more muscle mass, but obviously the side effects on hair are more pronounced than test.