Do finasteride side effects decrease with age?
- Thread starter kikoman
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I think a study needs to specifically done on guys taking finasteride at 18-30 (or maybe just 25)
Many guys don't finish puberty until their early 20s. I find it unbelievable that doctors out there are willing to give 18 year old guys finasteride like its nothing. I do believe, just from anecdotal stories, that younger guys seems to have more trouble with sides.
I think in 10 years we'll look back and say..what the f***..how were doctors just giving this stuff out like candy without any hormone testing or anything. Not saying its bad for everyone..but I think doctors are doing people a disservice by telling them that DHT is useless and its ok for an 18 year old to take a hormone altering drug without even having a test done
Many guys don't finish puberty until their early 20s. I find it unbelievable that doctors out there are willing to give 18 year old guys finasteride like its nothing. I do believe, just from anecdotal stories, that younger guys seems to have more trouble with sides.
I think in 10 years we'll look back and say..what the f***..how were doctors just giving this stuff out like candy without any hormone testing or anything. Not saying its bad for everyone..but I think doctors are doing people a disservice by telling them that DHT is useless and its ok for an 18 year old to take a hormone altering drug without even having a test done
Cassin
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Chris87 said:
I completely agree with all of the above. Everything is dead on. I think you summarized my feelings on this perfectly.
I wish more people sought out specialists when problems arise. Not solely turning to the internet and forums. It's ok to seek out help and support but people put too much faith into "internet experts." While generally meaning well some of these people can make matters worse.
berserker69
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I have never had a GP that would even consider discussing hairloss with me, for the most part I have found them arrogant, judgemental and lacking in life experience.....
I'm sure others must have had similar experiences which adds further to the complications of self-medicating, which further isolates one from medical supervision....
It's a double edged sword - I've treated various complaints of mine through self medicating and it can be an incredibly slippery slope fraught with risks both calculated and unconsidered/unknown...
brsrkr69
I'm sure others must have had similar experiences which adds further to the complications of self-medicating, which further isolates one from medical supervision....
It's a double edged sword - I've treated various complaints of mine through self medicating and it can be an incredibly slippery slope fraught with risks both calculated and unconsidered/unknown...
brsrkr69
I have a general mistrust of the modern medical establishment. This is partly due to a system whos answers for a lot of things is "heres a pill". When someone goes into a doctors office in America and says "well I've been a little depressed lately" its automatically "ok heres xanax" ...then the patient goes away..comes back some months later..still depressed and the doctor will go "hm ok..well either take MORE xanax or..heres another drug to stack on top of xanax". Its never "well what is your diet like? lets try eating organic foods, cutting out sugar, and having a fresh vegetable juice everyday. Lets also try some running a few times a week" Which should be the first line of defense. The problem is doctors and pharm companies can't make money off of you correcting problems with nutrition or exercise or whatever.
When I was in high school..maybe around the age of 16 or 17..I had a panic attack. It was pretty bad. I was at work and I didn't know what it was. I thought I was dying. They called an ambulance, I was taken to the hospital etc etc. A doctor prescribed me xanax and effexor and they told me to take the xanax for awhile until the effexor started to kick in because I had an anxiety disorder and if I didn't follow their protocol, then I would have more panic attacks and eventually it might get so bad that I wouldn't be able to leave the house without having anxiety. I took xanax and effexor for a couple of weeks and I thought to myself... "ya know what...i dont think thats true...i dont think i have an anxiety disorder..i think if i figure out what caused the panic attack i can work through it and i'll be fine" so I quit taking that sh*t. I figured out what it was that had triggered my anxiety..and i learned how to deal with it. Were there times where I felt anxiety or felt like I might have another panic attack? Yes..but I taught myself how to recognize it and control it. Fast forward to now (I'm 25) and I haven't had another panic attack, and I have no problem what so ever with anxiety. If I had listened to the way modern medicine wanted me to treat this, I might be a zoned out weirdo popping ridiculous amounts of anti-anxiety anti-depression pills.
So I'm very suspicious of doctors these days because they believe you can cure things with a chemical (except maybe infectious diseases but those aren't really cured with synthetic chemicals a lot of the time). I say that its not possible. Every single medication is nothing but a band-aide designed to make you dependent on it in higher and higher doses..when many times problems can be addressed, and more completely conquered through natural methods, behavior changes, nutritional changes etc.
I went to one of the most renowned and respected hair loss doctors in his field..Dr. Paul McAndrews in Beverly Hills. He sat there and told me that DHT didnt really have a use after puberty. He also told me he had been taking propecia for years (even though he has no hair loss...seriously..look up a picture of him..perfect hair.). He told me stories about how there are certain groups of people born without the 5AR enzyme and they end up being just fine after puberty (what he didn't mention was that these men often have ambiguous genitalia and are raised as girls due to the lack of DHT). He told me that I could take as much finasteride as I wanted to and it probably wouldn't do anything bad. He said something like "Propecia is 1mg per day..do some people take more than that? Yeah. You could take 10mg a day..its not going to do you any harm..it just wont work much better than 1mg does"
So..yeah..i do have a deep distrust of most doctors because they're willing to cram pills down the throats of every kid in america (we have kids under 10 years old taking f*****g ritalin for christ's sake..and its not uncommon)..and its not all their fault..they're trained in a system that rewards this and makes it the norm. This is why I think treatment needs to be a combination of a heavily educated patient, and the opinion of an honest doctor.
When I was in high school..maybe around the age of 16 or 17..I had a panic attack. It was pretty bad. I was at work and I didn't know what it was. I thought I was dying. They called an ambulance, I was taken to the hospital etc etc. A doctor prescribed me xanax and effexor and they told me to take the xanax for awhile until the effexor started to kick in because I had an anxiety disorder and if I didn't follow their protocol, then I would have more panic attacks and eventually it might get so bad that I wouldn't be able to leave the house without having anxiety. I took xanax and effexor for a couple of weeks and I thought to myself... "ya know what...i dont think thats true...i dont think i have an anxiety disorder..i think if i figure out what caused the panic attack i can work through it and i'll be fine" so I quit taking that sh*t. I figured out what it was that had triggered my anxiety..and i learned how to deal with it. Were there times where I felt anxiety or felt like I might have another panic attack? Yes..but I taught myself how to recognize it and control it. Fast forward to now (I'm 25) and I haven't had another panic attack, and I have no problem what so ever with anxiety. If I had listened to the way modern medicine wanted me to treat this, I might be a zoned out weirdo popping ridiculous amounts of anti-anxiety anti-depression pills.
So I'm very suspicious of doctors these days because they believe you can cure things with a chemical (except maybe infectious diseases but those aren't really cured with synthetic chemicals a lot of the time). I say that its not possible. Every single medication is nothing but a band-aide designed to make you dependent on it in higher and higher doses..when many times problems can be addressed, and more completely conquered through natural methods, behavior changes, nutritional changes etc.
I went to one of the most renowned and respected hair loss doctors in his field..Dr. Paul McAndrews in Beverly Hills. He sat there and told me that DHT didnt really have a use after puberty. He also told me he had been taking propecia for years (even though he has no hair loss...seriously..look up a picture of him..perfect hair.). He told me stories about how there are certain groups of people born without the 5AR enzyme and they end up being just fine after puberty (what he didn't mention was that these men often have ambiguous genitalia and are raised as girls due to the lack of DHT). He told me that I could take as much finasteride as I wanted to and it probably wouldn't do anything bad. He said something like "Propecia is 1mg per day..do some people take more than that? Yeah. You could take 10mg a day..its not going to do you any harm..it just wont work much better than 1mg does"
So..yeah..i do have a deep distrust of most doctors because they're willing to cram pills down the throats of every kid in america (we have kids under 10 years old taking f*****g ritalin for christ's sake..and its not uncommon)..and its not all their fault..they're trained in a system that rewards this and makes it the norm. This is why I think treatment needs to be a combination of a heavily educated patient, and the opinion of an honest doctor.
Yeah I think being educated about your body, nutrition, exercise, alternative treatments etc is the best thing you can do for yourself. Prevention in the form of eating healthy, working out, listening to your body, etc is truly the absolute best medication possible.
Even with all that said..as soon as my shipment gets here..I'll be hopping back on finasteride (.25mg EOD to start). But ya know..this is the sickness that is hairloss...i dont want to be taking finasteride...I know its probably not good for my body...i dont like the thought of having a synthetic chemical f*****g with my natural processes...but I know if I don't want to end up losing all my hair I have to do it. I guess its what I have to do as a prisoner of hair loss. :sobbing: lol
Even with all that said..as soon as my shipment gets here..I'll be hopping back on finasteride (.25mg EOD to start). But ya know..this is the sickness that is hairloss...i dont want to be taking finasteride...I know its probably not good for my body...i dont like the thought of having a synthetic chemical f*****g with my natural processes...but I know if I don't want to end up losing all my hair I have to do it. I guess its what I have to do as a prisoner of hair loss. :sobbing: lol
Yeah it was a GP. I cant imagine though that a psychiatrist would say much different. It seems like a lot of psychiatrists are just pill dispensers too. I watched this documentary on netflix about kids taking prescription drugs and there was one really really young kid..like 10 or maybe even younger..who was on all types of ADHD medication. There are a couple scenes where he goes in for a checkup with his psychiatrist and his mom would say "Ya know he's settled down now during the day, but now he cant sleep" and the doctor goes ahead and stacks on another prescription for some sort of depressant and then recommends upping the dosage of his ADHD meds. So now you're feeding the kid speed during the day and then knocking him out with another med at night..and you think this kid isn't going to be fucked up? Its like COME ON every fuckin kid around that age basically has ADHD..they're f*****g kids..thats what they do..they bounce off the f*****g wall.
No one wants to work on this sh*t. We're all lazy. No one wants to take the kid with a lot of energy and say ok...ya know what..maybe you shouldnt sit in a class room all day having to sit still..maybe you should learn by being outsides and running around and doing something different. Instead..if they don't fit into the little box of whats considered "normal proper behavior" they stick pills down their mouths.
There was one kid i saw on there that looked like a zombie and had developed physical ticks and twitches from being on stimulants for ADHD for so long. Its pretty sad how clueless people really are these days about their bodies and how to fix them...instead of searching out answers and doing the right thing, or maybe being creative..the answer is just "give em meds"
I could go on and on..but I'll stop...I think I could do a good 2 hour rant on this type of thing haha
uke:
No one wants to work on this sh*t. We're all lazy. No one wants to take the kid with a lot of energy and say ok...ya know what..maybe you shouldnt sit in a class room all day having to sit still..maybe you should learn by being outsides and running around and doing something different. Instead..if they don't fit into the little box of whats considered "normal proper behavior" they stick pills down their mouths.
There was one kid i saw on there that looked like a zombie and had developed physical ticks and twitches from being on stimulants for ADHD for so long. Its pretty sad how clueless people really are these days about their bodies and how to fix them...instead of searching out answers and doing the right thing, or maybe being creative..the answer is just "give em meds"
I could go on and on..but I'll stop...I think I could do a good 2 hour rant on this type of thing haha
uke:I honestly think, if anything, severe and persistent symptoms have to do with age. It seems most of the people on Propeciahelp are under 30, and most are in their early 20’s. Some people hit puberty late, and it may not even be completely done by 18. If you took Finasteride before puberty was totally complete, I can see how it would mess things up. This might also explain why you never see any older men complaining of persistent symptoms from taking Proscar. Of course, it could be something else entirely, but if Finasteride is really the sole cause of these issues, I’m willing to bet age has a lot to do with it.
Well said though Chris. I think a lot of the time, doctors just want to stop listening to patients complain, so they prescribe pills. Quite often, medication is not required to treat illnesses. I went through a bout of quite severe anxiety in my early 20’s. I was on dozens of SSRI’s, because that’s the only answer my doctor had. Some of them worked a bit, but the ones that worked well gave me brutal side effects. It wasn’t until I found out about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that I was able to finally rid myself of the problems, and this was years after I stopped taking medications… 5 years later anxiety has not returned.
That being said, I think the polar opposite is just as bad. I’ve personally known people who refuse treatment for rather serious conditions and opt to go to a holistic healer. After a few weeks of expensive BS therapy, their conditions get worse and they end up having to go to the hospital. 10 years ago, my mom was best friends with an ovarian cancer patient. The cancer was fairly new, so there was a good chance of treating it. She opted to go to a holistic healer, and refuse chemo and radiation. I think less than 2 years later she died. So you need to find balance between PROVEN ‘natural’ methods of healing (exercise, diet, and spirituality) and modern medicine.
On top of Finasteride, I also take Adderall for ADD.. I’ve been on it for the last 2 months and it’s literally changed my life. I didn’t even believe ADD was real (I still don’t) but Adderall helps my motivation, concentration, energy so greatly that I’m a whole new person. Call ADD bullshit, call me an Adderall junkie, say what you will, but it has affected me so profoundly and positively I just can’t explain it. If anybody here thinks they have ADD, go talk to your doctor about this stuff. It’s just incredible! As an added bonus, it boosts my libido like crazy. I feel like an 18 yearold again!
Wow that got off topic fast.
Well said though Chris. I think a lot of the time, doctors just want to stop listening to patients complain, so they prescribe pills. Quite often, medication is not required to treat illnesses. I went through a bout of quite severe anxiety in my early 20’s. I was on dozens of SSRI’s, because that’s the only answer my doctor had. Some of them worked a bit, but the ones that worked well gave me brutal side effects. It wasn’t until I found out about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that I was able to finally rid myself of the problems, and this was years after I stopped taking medications… 5 years later anxiety has not returned.
That being said, I think the polar opposite is just as bad. I’ve personally known people who refuse treatment for rather serious conditions and opt to go to a holistic healer. After a few weeks of expensive BS therapy, their conditions get worse and they end up having to go to the hospital. 10 years ago, my mom was best friends with an ovarian cancer patient. The cancer was fairly new, so there was a good chance of treating it. She opted to go to a holistic healer, and refuse chemo and radiation. I think less than 2 years later she died. So you need to find balance between PROVEN ‘natural’ methods of healing (exercise, diet, and spirituality) and modern medicine.
On top of Finasteride, I also take Adderall for ADD.. I’ve been on it for the last 2 months and it’s literally changed my life. I didn’t even believe ADD was real (I still don’t) but Adderall helps my motivation, concentration, energy so greatly that I’m a whole new person. Call ADD bullshit, call me an Adderall junkie, say what you will, but it has affected me so profoundly and positively I just can’t explain it. If anybody here thinks they have ADD, go talk to your doctor about this stuff. It’s just incredible! As an added bonus, it boosts my libido like crazy. I feel like an 18 yearold again!
Wow that got off topic fast.
Haha, if I saw your last post about ADHD before posting mine, I would have maybe reconsidered wording.
I agree with you for the most part; ADHD medications are WAY over prescribed to children. I actually feel nervous taking this stuff because it is extremely strong, and it can be very addictive.
However, I was diagnosed with ADD (without hyperactivity) as a child, maybe when I was 7. It severely affected my success in school, right up to the point where I dropped out of college. My parents refused to treat it, because they felt the same way you do; ADHD medication is dangerous and "i'm not giving my child speed!". I think if they had chosen to treat me, my education and career may have been much different. Not that i'm unhappy where I am now, but I feel I missed out on a lot of opportunity due to it.
I don't exactly believe in ADD and ADHD as a diagnosis. However, I do believe people suffer from chronic concentration issues, lack of motivation, and seeking constant stimulation. These were my issues. I had always passed it off as being lazy, but over the last 2 months on Adderall i've realized this wasn't my issue.
I agree with you for the most part; ADHD medications are WAY over prescribed to children. I actually feel nervous taking this stuff because it is extremely strong, and it can be very addictive.
However, I was diagnosed with ADD (without hyperactivity) as a child, maybe when I was 7. It severely affected my success in school, right up to the point where I dropped out of college. My parents refused to treat it, because they felt the same way you do; ADHD medication is dangerous and "i'm not giving my child speed!". I think if they had chosen to treat me, my education and career may have been much different. Not that i'm unhappy where I am now, but I feel I missed out on a lot of opportunity due to it.
I don't exactly believe in ADD and ADHD as a diagnosis. However, I do believe people suffer from chronic concentration issues, lack of motivation, and seeking constant stimulation. These were my issues. I had always passed it off as being lazy, but over the last 2 months on Adderall i've realized this wasn't my issue.
antman
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with regards to doctors
I live in Australia and just came from a doctor's appointment. This is what he said to me.
Stop all hair loss treatment, stop researching it, and stop thinking about it and stop going to forums. Eat a healthy and balanced diet, go to the gym, keep your hair short and go out and do normal stuff that young people do.
You shouldn't be on any drugs.
(I realize by posting this I’ve already broken what he said)
He asked, ‘just how disturbing is hair loss to you?’
I really didn’t have an answer for him except that initially I found it very disheartening.
He wants to see me again in 6 months to see how my gym gains go and do a blood test of my androgens without any drugs.
It’s a far more challenging recommendation from a doctor but I doubt one could form much of an argument against what he said.
I live in Australia and just came from a doctor's appointment. This is what he said to me.
Stop all hair loss treatment, stop researching it, and stop thinking about it and stop going to forums. Eat a healthy and balanced diet, go to the gym, keep your hair short and go out and do normal stuff that young people do.
You shouldn't be on any drugs.
(I realize by posting this I’ve already broken what he said)
He asked, ‘just how disturbing is hair loss to you?’
I really didn’t have an answer for him except that initially I found it very disheartening.
He wants to see me again in 6 months to see how my gym gains go and do a blood test of my androgens without any drugs.
It’s a far more challenging recommendation from a doctor but I doubt one could form much of an argument against what he said.
monty1978 said:
You may or may not have been done with it. What I'm saying is in general, a lot of guys are just finishing up in their early 20s (20-23). I don't think its smart to be feeding guys that age a pill that blocks the majority of the body's most powerful androgen. A lot of guys can't grow a decent beard until 10 years after they've ended puberty (I'm one of them...I dont grow a lot of facial hair..i probably wont be able to get a decent beard until I'm in my 30s..just like my dad) so obviously DHT is still doing something
I just think the way finasteride is handled isn't serious enough...no one does tests..no one cares how young a guy is
monty1978 said:
Yeah I had sides too when I took it for the first time (I was 23 I believe) I'm 25 now and about to start on it again. Last time I had sides and quit within a month. This time I'm starting on a really low dose every other day. If I get sides I'm going to ride them out for at least a few months to see if they get better. I'm at the point where I can either let my hair continue to go and within the next year or 2 it'll probably be pretty noticeable..or I can save it now and most people wouldnt even think I was losing it. So..at this point I'm willing to ride out having weaker erections or whatever for a couple months to see if it improves.
Its a double edged sword this hair loss thing...hopefully in the next few years we'll have something more effective
kikoman
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Chris87 said:
Did you have any major changes in your body since you between 23 and now? I've noticed that only recently I've gotten broader shoulders, and am still developing body and facial hair. I doubt it's puberty now, but my body is a lot different from my 20 year old self, and it's still developing.
kikoman said:
Nah I can't say that I had any major changes between 23 and now...not that I notice anyway..I'm still the same height/weight..still the same amount of body hair/facial hair (which is very little except for my legs ). 2 years isn't much time though. I'm wondering if I stay on finasteride, will i ever develop full facial hair or will that stunt my facial hair growth?