Do we need 5ar2 for our bones or tendons?

[CCS]

I know that many tissues make their own DHT, some using 5ar1, and others using 5ar2.

Prostate: 5ar2
Hair: 5ar2
sebum glands: 5ar1
never cells: 5ar1
penis: I read it has 5ar, but it did not say what kind
bones: I read we need DHT for bone density, but I don't know what kind of 5ar they have
tendons: I don't know what they have, but they do need the right ratio of testosterone and estrogen to be strong. Too little estrogen and they become brittle
Muscles: They do not use DHT. They actually are full of an enzyme that turns DHT into something else before it can reach the androgen receptor. This enzyme is in some other tissues too, but mostly in the muscles.

Anyway, my cartilage is not reparing itself as fast as I want. I just wonder if it needs DHT or not. I read they can inject new cartilage cells into cartillage rips, and they will fill in and be strong. They do this with horses in experiments and it works.

I wish I could count on spironolactone/lavendar shampoo to protect my hair topically, but I just don't know yet. So for now I'm still taking finasteride. No way am I getting on avodart though.

 

[Mew]

5AR2, perhaps (although there are certain studies stating finasteride has no effect on bone density, the FDA Propecia Trials documents stats show some changes)... but if you're taking dutasteride (dual 5AR inhibitor), you should be concerned.

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Human Osteoblast-Like Cells Express Predominantly Steroid 5-Reductase Type 1

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/conten ... 87/12/5401

Selected bits:


"... Our demonstration of 5-R activity in bone fragments and cultured bone cells (11, 12) and the current identification of the 5-R type 1 isozyme in human bone cells provide supporting evidence that DHT is, in addition to estrogen, a direct mediator of sex steroid action within human bone. "

"... In summary, we have demonstrated that 5-R type 1 is the predominantly active enzyme in human osteoblast-like cells. As in most androgen target tissues DHT is biologically more active as an androgen than testosterone, DHT is formed in bone from circulating testosterone by 5-R action as well as from the androgen precursor androstenedione by 5-R and 17-HSD action, and bone cells also express the androgen receptor, it appears reasonable to conclude that local DHT production plays a physiological role in human bone homeostasis. "

 

[Mew]

Regarding muscle....

RAPIDLY REVERSIBLE MYOPATHY RELATED TO FINASTERIDE THERAPY

F. Giannini, N. Volpi*, G. Bibbò, G. Greco, C. Alessandrini*, L. Flori°, M. Fimiani°

PDF: http://www.bio.unipd.it/bam/PDF/14-2/pr ... ngress.pdf
(search for "Finasteride" in the PDF)
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A seventy-three year-old man, admitted to dermatological ward for evaluation of erythematous-papular-desquamative skin lesions, was referred to neurologist because of three months lasting progressive muscle weakness and atrophy, with 10 kg body weight loss.

Physical examination revealed severe weakness (MRC 3/5) in proximal districts of limbs confirmed by clear EMG myogenic pattern and mild active denervation in proximal muscles.

Leukopenia, increase of serum inflammatory markers and myoglobin, autoantibody titers and muscle enzyme values within normal range were observed. Skin biopsy was consistent with discoid lupus erythematosus, whereas muscle biopsy showed atrophy of type II fibers, mild type grouping and no inflammatory changes.

The patient had been treated with finasteride 5 mg/die for five years because of benign prostatic hyperplasia and never had used corticosteroids. Owing to similarity of clinical findings with a previously described case, the drug was withdrawn (Haan, 1997).

One month later, recovery of muscle strength was remarkable and body weight had increased by 3 kg. Antiandrogen finasteride, a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor, is employed in benign prostatic hyperplasia and alopecia.

Sexual dysfunctions are most frequent side effects, whereas abdominal-pelvic pain, headache and asthenia are rarely reported.

The current case confirms rapidly reversible myopathy as a possible adverse effect of finasteride treatment, attributable to its structural affinity to corticosteroids.


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Attached image from:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=O4Qxgc5 ... 1-PA640,M1


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http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/fo ... 2851088433

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/97/ ... 3352t1.rtf

Also, in this year, there is a report showing that in a patient treated for benign prostatic hyperplasia, there is an occurrence of severe reversible myopathy associated with finasteride use, and this was clinically and histologically resembling glucocorticoid-induced myopathy.

 

[mane]

be careful when taking these medications as i believe in some people drastic lowering of dht levels can cause severe reactions!
i only tried dutasteride 7 times! and its been 4 weeks since i got off it and still havent recovered from severe muscoskeletal pain!
i live a very healthy lifestyle and it has totaly shot my strength, tendons/muscles feel totally fatigued and bones definately feel very brittle!
i wish i could go back and never heard of this stuff but there are a lot of people who have benefited so i thought id give it a go.
i agree with information you have provided ccs as dht does have a larger role to play in our systems and everybody will react differently to it especially dutasteride being a dual inhibitor acting very quickly on reducing levels of dht dramatically in about a week.
It doesnt help that it is also a Fluoroquinolone based compound which also has very severe reactions in certain individuals much like cipro only dutasteride has a longer half-life!
wonder why gsk give users 1-2 weeks use to check for tolerability for the drug and there are a lot of users out there that have had the same rections as i.
very poteny inhibitor! Obviously dht played an important role in my system and the drastic change in hormone levels caused very negative feedback!
been prescribed muscle relaxants and anti-anxiety drugs to combat my reactions and have been admitted to the hospital twice from severe unexplained panic attacks/palpitations and nausea/dizzyness.
believe me they were way out of the norm and very intense!!! very worrying indeed.
there definately needs to be more research done on these inhibitors as what might work for some wont work for others.
just how long though does it take for this to get out of my system and only after 7 doses!