Doctors Learning to say "Im Sorry"

HairlossTalk

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It's about time...

CHICAGO (Nov. 11) - It's a lesson children learn even before their ABCs - say you're sorry when you hurt someone. But it's now being taught in the grown-up world of medicine as a surprisingly powerful way to soothe patients and head off malpractice lawsuits.

Some malpractice-reform advocates say an apology can help doctors avoid getting sued, especially when combined with an upfront settlement offer.

The idea defies a long tradition in which doctors cultivated a Godlike image of infallibility and rarely owned up to their mistakes.

The softer approach, now appearing in some medical school courses and hospital policies, is drawing interest as national attention has turned to reducing both medical errors and the high cost of malpractice insurance, which has been blamed for driving doctors out of business.

Doctors' often-paternalistic relationship with patients is giving way to an understanding that "it's OK to tell the patient the whole story," said Dr. Paul Barach, an anesthesiologist and patient safety researcher at the University of Miami. It is "a huge sea change as far as our relationships with patients."

The hospitals in the University of Michigan Health System have been encouraging doctors since 2002 to apologize for mistakes. The system's annual attorney fees have since dropped from $3 million to $1 million, and malpractice lawsuits and notices of intent to sue have fallen from 262 filed in 2001 to about 130 per year, said Rick Boothman, a former trial attorney who launched the practice there.

Bob Vogt, a retired Cadillac dealership employee from Belleville, said an apology might not have stopped him from suing over the misdiagnosis of a brain aneurysm in 1990 that he contends left his wife severely disabled. But it might have saved his relationship with the doctor, once a close friend, he said.

"If he had come forward and not tried to conceal the thing, I probably would have had a lot better feeling," Vogt said. "You don't want them to be Godlike. They have to be willing to step up to the plate and say, 'I made a mistake."'

Dr. Michael Woods, a Colorado surgeon and author of "Healing Words: The Power of Apology in Medicine," said his own experience a decade ago illustrates the impact of the traditional way doctors have handled mistakes.

Woods was overseeing surgery to remove a patient's appendix. A medical resident accidentally punctured an artery, which led to a more extensive operation. The patient was unhappy with how Woods handled the aftermath; during one visit, Woods propped his feet up on the desk and, in her opinion, acted as if he didn't care.

Woods said he wanted to apologize, but legal advisers recommended breaking off contact with the patient when she threatened to sue.

Now a consultant to doctors and the malpractice insurance industry, Woods said his research has shown that being upset with a doctor's behavior often plays a bigger role than the error itself in patients' decisions to sue.

The say-you're-sorry movement has been prompted in part by emerging evidence about the scope of medical errors. An Institute of Medicine report in 1999 said mistakes kill as many as 98,000 hospitalized Americans each year.

Supporters of the strategy want the Illinois Legislature to adopt a program called "Sorry Works" that recommends apologies and settlements when mistakes occur. Under the proposed pilot program, two Illinois hospitals would be recruited to see if the policy saves money.

While the number of settlements would probably increase, lawsuits and sky-high jury awards would decrease, said Doug Wojcieszak, a public relations consultant whose victims' rights group proposed "Sorry Works."

Apologies and upfront financial offers could mean the difference between settlements costing thousands of dollars and drawn-out malpractice lawsuits costing millions in attorney fees and jury awards, Wojcieszak said.

The idea for "Sorry Works" came from an honesty policy the Veterans Affairs hospital in Lexington, Ky., adopted in 1987 after two big malpractice cases cost the hospital over $1.5 million.

Dr. Steve Kraman, then the hospital's chief of staff, said he helped create the policy as an alternative to the traditional "shut up and fight" strategy. The center's liability costs subsequently dropped below those of comparable VA hospitals, he said.

"Not only was it the right thing to do, but over the long haul, we were saving money by doing things this way," he said.
 

Brasileirao

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Me: Doctor, what is it? Give it to me straight.
Doctor Nonsense: I'm sorry son, you are going bald and in a few months you will.....have no hair. I'm really sorry.
Me: It's ok Doctor, its just the law of nature.


or

Me: Doctor, what is it? Give it to me straight.
Doctor Nonsense: You are loooosssing your hair fast!!!
Me: Well, what the f*** are you going to do about it, b**ch!
Doctor Nonsense: Not a damn thing, you are screwed.
Me: What about Propecia and other medication.
Doctor Nonsense: Propecia? If you want it Ill look into it when I have time and prescribe it to you.
Me: (insert sound of me smacking the sh*t out of the doctor)
Me: (insert sound of me stomping on his head)
Doctor Nonsense: Ok, I get your point, here is some Propecia....see me in 2 years.
Me: Later!
 

Temples

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To quote Bill Maher:

"If a doctor puts an Altoids box in my chest cavity I want to see him in debtor's prison."
 

Trent

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i hope you guys are just saying all that stuff in good fun! cause i'm in med school working my *** off right now, with absolutely no life just so i can make a difference, i know dick doctors are out there and do make stupid mistakes, but they are not all bad.

again, if you were just saying that in jest, no biggie, but don't hate on docs!
 

HairlossTalk

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Im anxious for the new generation of students to become doctors. But they're totally justified to hate on the existing docs. I've already seen a bunch of younger guys coming out into the "work force" and they have a completely different mentality than the traditional doctor. They're also about 9,000 times more informed.

HairLossTalk.com
 

oni

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"kill as many as 98,000 hospitalized Americans each year".

Wow when is Bush going to start bombing them hospitals or at least the staff :shock: no no no I forget they don't have any oil lol!
 

Trent

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could someone also include the number of people doctors SAVE each year, and yes doctors do make mistakes, they are human. i'm sorry i just get a little defensive when people talk shite. but, now that i think about it your right, when i get a heart attack i'm staying home, god knows i don't want to become one of those 98,000.
 

HairlossTalk

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The point is that the number of mistakes due to "God Complex" attitudes, absolute lack of diagnostic testing because they're afraid to piss off insurance companies, and just plain poor procedure, crappy computer systems, and .... then on top of it all... mix in human error ... there's a major problem here in the US with the medical system. Major.

If we didn't have immune systems, doctors would be out of business, because the actual role they play in detecting and warding off diseases is so miniscule it is incredible. You wait between 3 weeks and 6 months just to see one, and then get 10 minutes with them, and they shoo you out as quickly as they can.

This is a service based profession and that is the worst possible service on earth. My car gets more attention than my body. That is it in a nutshell. I can get my car in for a full day of evaluations and workups at any time I want with 3 days notice. I finally turned 30 and my "complete physical" was 15 minutes long, included an eye and a breathing check, and the asking of 5 questions. The end. Oh, and since it was considered "Preventative Medicine" I had to pay $250 cash for it out of pocket. I should have just gone in and said I had the flu. It would have been covered by insurance and he would have done more of an evaluation on my body!

Its a joke, and the bottom line is that consumers are responsible for keeping themselves alive by self diagnosis and self treatment. Doctors today really play no role for me aside from prescribing medications that I am unable to prescribe for myself. And I have to actually talk them into prescribing it 90% of the time because they haven't read the latest literature on their own specialty. Its a mess!

HairLossTalk.com
 

Trent

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then you are clearly seeing the wrong docs. not all of them are like that. get a new doctor. some do have "god complexes" no doubt, but they are also flooded with patients, and the prices are so high because people are so eager to sue over everything that the medical malpractice insurance is ridiculous, its over 100,000 dollars a year to be an OBGYN and that's even if you have NO medical malpractice suits. i have a friend who got sued over something that wasn't even his fault, the claim was not even legit, but just because the claim was made his malpractice insurance went up so much he can't even practice anymore. the system is screwed up, but don't sit here an blame it all on the docs. its society too. you have to go through years and years and years and years of schooling and hell (like i'm in right now) and it costs over 150,000 dollars just to get the chance to do it. its obvious you've had some bad experiences, but don't overgeneralize that all docs are like that.

i'm not trying to be an *** or anything, you would be arguing the same thing if you were in med school right now working your *** off and everyone was just badmouthing your profession.
 

Axon

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Trent8 said:
could someone also include the number of people doctors SAVE each year, and yes doctors do make mistakes, they are human. i'm sorry i just get a little defensive when people talk shite. but, now that i think about it your right, when i get a heart attack i'm staying home, god knows i don't want to become one of those 98,000.

I can quote you to a case where a doctor left an 18" by 18" medical pad inside a patient's abdomen after surgery.

Their defense was that she swallowed the pad. How it got out of her stomach, however, was another story.

It's a hard situation. On one hand, you have a doctor who has likely helped thousands of people during his career. On the other hand, you have an incident where his negligence caused a severe injury or death. Doctors aren't exactly angels; they push hard for an objective "physician" standard, meaning that the jury will have to ask whether that doctor's treatment was up to the standard of his profession or wheter or not a normal doctor would have informed the patient of certain risks inherent in a surgery, depending on what the negligence claim is based upon.

Who's right there? The doctor who fucked up once but has helped lots of people? The "scumbag" lawyer who's donated over 2000 hours to pro bono work, assisting those who can't afford legal counsel? The patient or their next of kin who just want justice?

Shades of gray...
 

Trent

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ha. i really don't mean to piss anyone off if i am, its hard to tell if people are actually pissed or just arguing for the hell of it, i'm not trying to start a fight or anything here, just thought i'd put my two cents in. especially you HairLossTalk.com your site rocks, so if you're pissed off i apologize.
 

Axon

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I'm certainly not angry about anything. I recognize what a burden it is on doctors and even as a democrat I'm strongly for tort reform. I'm actually for a no-fault system (sh*t happens, you can't collect - hey, it works in Europe) or a "pool" system, where instead of paying out premiums to insurance companies, all our money goes into a pool to be collected by injured parties. Such an agency is overseen by the government who investigates each claim.
 

HairlossTalk

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The point is, and I keep finding myself repeating myself ...

There are NO checks and balances.

No board to evaluate decisions made by a GP on a daily basis for the 10 people he saw that day. Nobody to sit down with him and ask him what the patients said, and what he did in response. Nobody to verify that he made the right decision. Nobody to check his work. Nobody to give him input or correct him. There is nothing.

That is the problem.

Human error is handled this way in every single other profession.

1. In programming you have test teams to evaluate the programmers work.
2. In auto mechanics you have computers that check and recheck.
3. In accounting you have to balance the numbers or you find out that something went wrong along the way.
4. In banking, someone counts the money, and someone else recounts it and signs off on the original counter's number.
4. In journalism you don't just write the article and publish it. You run the risk of looking like an unreputable publication if someone finds misinformation or a typo. So you have proof readers and editors.

All of this surrounds the human fallability issue!!!

The goal? With every one of them, to eliminate errors.

Its not about "seeing the wrong doctors". I did what every other person on the planet does. I set up an appointment with any random doctor and I have stories that I could go on and on about relating to their misinformation, lack of education, and prescribing mistakes, you name it.

There needs to be an accountability process instituted. I realize it will be expensive. But the current one, if there even is one, is not working.

You can't expect doctors to be perfect. But you also cannot expect patients to accept "human fallability" as an excuse. That is the conflict here. Nobody has bothered to try and eliminate that human fallibility issue though. There's a reason Doctors are associated with the term "God Complex" both in my mind and in the minds of major publications. Because nobody questions them. Nobody contradicts them. Nobody checks their work or their decisions.

Now, when it comes to major surgeries, I am aware there are "Panels" of surgeons who evaluate specific situations and make group decisions. This needs to expand to every level of medicine.

Simply put, how many of those 89,000 deaths could have been avoided if someone was there to simply check the other person's work? I'd be willing to bet, all of them.

HairLossTalk.com
 

Trent

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you make a valid point. i'll just leave it at that. i wish there were people looking over doctor's shoulders cause they do make mistakes, problem is, like you said, that would be super expensive, and as you mentioned you are paying a lot of medical appts as it is.
 

HairlossTalk

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What would be the most important profession on earth to have checks and balances in?

The one responsible for our very lives, wouldn't you think?

I'd think that too!

Until then, my car has a GREAT situation going for him!

HairLossTalk.com
 

HairlossTalk

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Read the whole thread.
 
G

Guest

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Alex Baldwin says it best in Malice - I am god :)

I have an exam in economics from the top university and I´m on my way of becoming a dr. Some of the exams I took while reading economics I had to read 2 days ahead of the exam - if I read 2 days ahead of a medical exam I would maybe get 10% of the questions right - maybe!
 
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