Dr. Christiano Presentation on JAK Inhibitors

[hellouser]

Noisette at BTT found this presentation made by Dr. Christiano on the topic of JAK inhibitors.

[video=youtube;5075-yO7KEw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5075-yO7KEw[/video]

Pay attention to the presentation at the 10 minute mark, she goes into SOME detail. At one point she shows OTHER JAK inhibitors;

VX-509
R348
GLPG0634

However, STILL no mention of it's use for MALE pattern baldness. WHY are all these doctors so silent about it?!

 

[Fena2000]

Noisette at BTT found this presentation made by Dr. Christiano on the topic of JAK inhibitors.

[video=youtube;5075-yO7KEw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5075-yO7KEw[/video]

Pay attention to the presentation at the 10 minute mark, she goes into SOME detail. At one point she shows OTHER JAK inhibitors;

VX-509
R348
GLPG0634

However, STILL no mention of it's use for MALE pattern baldness. WHY are all these doctors so silent about it?!

I thought it only only worked on people with AA. But isn't Androgenetic Alopecia considered to be autoimmune as well?

Have they ever tested it on people with Androgenetic Alopecia to see if it would have any effect?

 

[Fbalding84]

Side effects creates the silence. And you can't make money with someone else's drug. You need some invention without infringement to their patents if you want to be rich lol and like I have said in past-"we humans only act when driven by incentives"

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Androgenetic Alopecia is an autoimmune disease. DHT causes some kind of inflammation to which the body reacts and causes scarring resulting to fibrosis. Fibrosis (like in the lungs Google it) around the follicle constricts hence we see miniturazation (Google square melons in jar) - the thighning collagen forces the hair to grow through a narrower hole. Once the fibrosis is thick enough the body no longer see the follicle as a treat therefore we see a decrease in itching and redness. Mjnoxidil perhaps some how decrease the collagen material that makes up the fibrosis resulting in hair growth. For this reason why no drug can cure nw6 because the collagen is thick and permanent fibrosis and this fibrosis is irreversible.

 

[Armando Jose]

Not all inflammarion is caused by DHT,..., but I agree wiyh you in most you indicated with the chain of events in common hairloss.

 

[Fena2000]

Side effects creates the silence. And you can't make money with someone else's drug. You need some invention without infringement to their patents if you want to be rich lol and like I have said in past-"we humans only act when driven by incentives"

- - - Updated - - -

Androgenetic Alopecia is an autoimmune disease. DHT causes some kind of inflammation to which the body reacts and causes scarring resulting to fibrosis. Fibrosis (like in the lungs Google it) around the follicle constricts hence we see miniturazation (Google square melons in jar) - the thighning collagen forces the hair to grow through a narrower hole. Once the fibrosis is thick enough the body no longer see the follicle as a treat therefore we see a decrease in itching and redness. Mjnoxidil perhaps some how decrease the collagen material that makes up the fibrosis resulting in hair growth. For this reason why no drug can cure nw6 because the collagen is thick and permanent fibrosis and this fibrosis is irreversible.

So how are replicel or histogen or anybody able to regrow hair in a skin with permanent fibrosis , it doesn't seem to be possible? I think I need to do some more reading on this, never mind.

another quick question, what about eyelashes and eyebrows can these be affected the same way. According to a lot of medical articles I've read , they are not affected by DHT? So why are mine thinning?

thx btw!

 

[bushbush]

Fibrosis (like in the lungs Google it) around the follicle constricts hence we see miniturazation (Google square melons in jar) - the thighning collagen forces the hair to grow through a narrower hole. Once the fibrosis is thick enough the body no longer see the follicle as a treat therefore we see a decrease in itching and redness. Mjnoxidil perhaps some how decrease the collagen material that makes up the fibrosis resulting in hair growth. For this reason why no drug can cure nw6 because the collagen is thick and permanent fibrosis and this fibrosis is irreversible.

That's some serious bro-science right there.

 

[benjt]

Well, when I first started digging into Androgenetic Alopecia I also had the same thoughts, but my understanding at that time wasn't sufficient yet. And, in all fairness, the fibrosis seems to play some part, even though not the biggest.

My current understanding is that fibrosis as well as loss of DSC/DP cells are both (mostly) independent, downstream effects of Dkk1 upregulation, Wnt inhibition, and PGD2 expression. Fibrotic tissue might only make the battle harder, as it decreases local permutability, microvascular nutrient (and maybe cell?) supply, etc.

And regarding the JAK inhibitors: We already had this topic two times before and we always reached the conclusion that they don't work for Androgenetic Alopecia. Yes, both may be sort-of immune responses, but Androgenetic Alopecia is PGD2 and AA was rogue macrophages or T cells, if I remember correctly. Either way, two different modes of action, and JAK inhibitors only work on one (AA's) but not the other (Androgenetic Alopecia's).

 

[Fena2000]

It's all confusing to me, some say there DSC/DP cells are completely gone, some say they're not.

thx btw.

 

[Iwantmyhairbacknow]

a woman has hair loss ( AA) she change the world and she cure that , but for Androgenetic Alopecia we can't cure it ??? fck!!!! tired from losing my hair , I still so young for that.

 

[Fena2000]

a woman has hair loss ( AA) she change the world and she cure that , but for Androgenetic Alopecia we can't cure it ??? fck!!!! tired from losing my hair , I still so young for that.

Arent there any people on this forum with a medical degree or derm degree who can team up and find a cure? :crazy: It took one person with dedication to find a cure for a condition she's been suffering from.

 

[hellouser]

Arent there any people on this forum with a medical degree or derm degree who can team up and find a cure? :crazy: It took one person with dedication to find a cure for a condition she's been suffering from.

Cotsarelis is balding himself... doesnt seem like he's in any rush to really help us out.

 

[Fena2000]

Cotsarelis is balding himself... doesnt seem like he's in any rush to really help us out.

From the picture I've just seen, he's not balding bad enough yet to worry. He'll speed things up when it progresses.

 

[bushbush]

Cotsarelis is balding himself... doesnt seem like he's in any rush to really help us out.

From the picture I've just seen, he's not balding bad enough yet to worry. He'll speed things up when it progresses.

Just like how cancer researchers will work faster once they get cancer, right?

 

[Fena2000]

Just like how cancer researchers will work faster once they get cancer, right?

Seems that way. Maybe if his wife was balding, she would nag him everyday to find a cure, that would definitely speed it up!

sorry, just going through the stages. Mentioned in this video, I'm in the angry fase, and will stay there for a long time.

 

[hellouser]

Just like how cancer researchers will work faster once they get cancer, right?

There would be incentive...

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From the picture I've just seen, he's not balding bad enough yet to worry. He'll speed things up when it progresses.

He's got a bald spot on his crown. Watch his latest presentation from Korea's Hair Congress.

 

[Fena2000]

There would be incentive...

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He's got a bald spot on his crown. Watch his latest presentation from Korea's Hair Congress.

Yep, saw it.

 

[Iwantmyhairbacknow]

starting from knowing the real cause of hair loss, compared with non balding people and bald people , they are a lot of key for founding a cure for hair loss, we are in 2015 soon .... we can do a lot of thinks and we can't grow some hair ? I don't think sooo , I'm shure about one think no one care and when you ask someone he told you Baldness it's something normal , so fck then come and get my situation ( young and bald) maybe if I try to kill myself and make vedio then maybe some one will care for the others young male

 

[Fbalding84]

Cotsarelis is balding himself... doesnt seem like he's in any rush to really help us out.

He is making bank and rolling with some nice b****s lol no need to have hair In that scenario lol

- - - Updated - - -

Cotsarelis is balding himself... doesnt seem like he's in any rush to really help us out.

So how are replicel or histogen or anybody able to regrow hair in a skin with permanent fibrosis , it doesn't seem to be possible? I think I need to do some more reading on this, never mind.

another quick question, what about eyelashes and eyebrows can these be affected the same way. According to a lot of medical articles I've read , they are not affected by DHT? So why are mine thinning?

thx btw!

First of all the were specualting and assuming that we can have a full cure, I have to see the proof yet where a nw6 (balding more than half his life) goes to a nw1. The products that histogen is using we have to wait and see if it is a growth stimulant that can fully restore all miniturized follices or.......
Creating new hair follicle obviously can work as the new hair follicle has not yet been affected by what ever is causing Androgenetic Alopecia. We also have heard that histogen requires "touch up" visits after the first session(s).

And to reiterate I'm not saying the entire scalp is affectted by fibrosis but each follicle individually can be. DHT is not the only factory either. I have a perfectly healthy thick hair growing next to an almost invisible miniturized hair right on my front hairline.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, when I first started digging into Androgenetic Alopecia I also had the same thoughts, but my understanding at that time wasn't sufficient yet. And, in all fairness, the fibrosis seems to play some part, even though not the biggest.

My current understanding is that fibrosis as well as loss of DSC/DP cells are both (mostly) independent, downstream effects of Dkk1 upregulation, Wnt inhibition, and PGD2 expression. Fibrotic tissue might only make the battle harder, as it decreases local permutability, microvascular nutrient (and maybe cell?) supply, etc.

And regarding the JAK inhibitors: We already had this topic two times before and we always reached the conclusion that they don't work for Androgenetic Alopecia. Yes, both may be sort-of immune responses, but Androgenetic Alopecia is PGD2 and AA was rogue macrophages or T cells, if I remember correctly. Either way, two different modes of action, and JAK inhibitors only work on one (AA's) but not the other (Androgenetic Alopecia's).

I never believed the whole fibrosis movement on the forums. I thought it was just s bunch of bs and excuses to use derma rollers. After examine and reading up I came to the conclusion that the lungs and other organs have similar reactive pathway resulting in irreversible fibrosis. We take the same allergy medications for both hestamine reactions and pdge2- they're not the same but the meds works. If truly Androgenetic Alopecia is an auto-immune disease suppression of the body's (haywire/glitchy) response might do the trick; letting the body think the follicle is not harmful and let it grow as it did once before.

But if Androgenetic Alopecia is caused by aging (like we get wrinkles) then yes these drugs might now work.

And we have to agree that not all balding is equal. My balding was heavily accompanied with flaky, itchy and red scalp. My scalp and hair that was thinning/ balding also was painful to touch or even when I wasn't touching it was hurting.

 

[bilboswaggins]

Cotsarelis is balding himself... doesnt seem like he's in any rush to really help us out.

he is middle aged with a head of hair that is normal (even above average?) for his age and that few would associate with baldness
the only motivation for him to find the cure is $$$$$

 

[benjt]

I never believed the whole fibrosis movement on the forums. I thought it was just s bunch of bs and excuses to use derma rollers. After examine and reading up I came to the conclusion that the lungs and other organs have similar reactive pathway resulting in irreversible fibrosis. We take the same allergy medications for both hestamine reactions and pdge2- they're not the same but the meds works. If truly Androgenetic Alopecia is an auto-immune disease suppression of the body's (haywire/glitchy) response might do the trick; letting the body think the follicle is not harmful and let it grow as it did once before.

By now, I also consider the "autoimmune disease" hypothesis unlikely. Let me explain why. PGD2 and PGE2 are, at least in the scalp, dual function. While in the whole body they are used in controlled inflammation and controlled apoptosis to renew damaged or infected tissue, PGD2 and PGE2 are used - to the same end, but for different reasons - in the scalp: Hair cycling. PGD2 is upregulated for telogen (i.e. getting rid off the old hair and killing it off), and PGE2 for anagen (the latter is also the one of the proposed modes of action of minoxidil).
Now the problem is overexpression of PGD2 and underexpression of PGE2: Leading to more apoptosis than desired, and less recovery after the end of telogen.

The big question is: Why is PGD2 over- and PGE2 underexpressed? Hypotheses state that high DHT causes more sebum causes more bacteria/mites causes immune reaction all over the place. Others say that its a misguided response directly to DHT (but how likely is that - the body never fights DHT directly), then there's the idea of the indirect pathway of DHT -> Dkk1 which might be exclusive to the scalp, and some more. The latter isn't that stupid - it might indeed also be that hair cycling could be connected to testosterone cycling too. (yes, there is such a thing as testosterone cycling, much like estrogen cycling in women. Testosterone cycling happens at multiple periodicities - monthly, like the estrogen/menstrual cycle, but also seasonal, which matches hair cycling better)

But a pure autoimmune disease that affects more than 60% of males in all societies during the course of their lives? I don't think so. The fibrosis is only byproduct and indirect contributor to Androgenetic Alopecia, in my opinion, caused by the same mechanism that makes our follicles miniaturize.