Dr. Lee, spironolactone, and estrogen

[Bryan]

As we all know, Dr. Lee is fond of pointing out that one of the ways spironolactone has of being beneficial for hairloss is supposedly its ability to encourage testosterone to turn into estrogen. People have asked me about that once or twice in the past, and I replied that even though I have several medical journal studies on spironolactone, I believe I've only read that claim in just one of them. That would be "Antiandrogenic Effects of Topically Applied Spironolactone on the Hamster Flank Organ", Weissmann et al, Arch Dermatol 1985; 121:57-62. Below is the paragraph from the Comment section in which they mention that, along with the relevant citation of their own:

Apart from blockage of androgen receptors in target tissues, spironolactone when given systemically decreases the level of circulating androgens in humans, dogs, and hamsters. It is a result of increased peripheral conversion of testosterone into estrogen(2) and decreased synthesis of androgenic steroids in the adrenals and testes, in which spironolactone interferes with cytochrome P-450, a coenzyme for 17-b-hydroxylase, an enzyme necessary for the conversion of progesterone into testosterone.

(2) Rose LI, Underwood RH, Newmark SR: Pathophysiology of spironolactone-induced gynecomastia. Ann Intern Med 1977; 87:398-403.

I don't have the paper he references there, but I'll put it on my Get-List. It'll be interesting to see exactly how spironolactone supposedly turns testosterone into estrogen.

Bryan

 

[IDOASIS]

Thanks for the post Bryan.
Can u please post again where to get Dermovam.
It seems that my local pharmacy isn't familiar with this cream.

 

[powersam]

if it dooes in fact turn T into E that would be very good news for hair loss would it not? does estrogen stimulate scalp hair growth? (aside from the fact that less test in the scalp would be great as well)

 

[techprof]

Bryan would this mean that Dr. Lee is vindicated?

I hope that he is wrong about azelaic acid. I have stopped it.

 

[techprof]

bump for Bryan. Any update? I need to order some minoxidil from Dr. Lee. If this is indeed true, I will get some spironolactone also.
thanks.

 

[techprof]

bump for Bryan again.

 

[CCS]

in bryan's most recent post on azelaic acid, he aggreed that the in vivo fact that azelaic acid does not reduce sebum production only indicates it does not block 5ar1, but does not indicate it does not block 5ar2, since finasteride has not effect on sebum production either. So we still don't know. But Lee did say it blocks 98% of DHT, not specifying what type. Since we can safely assume it does not block 5ar1, it looks like he was lying here, and that weakens his credibility on the 5ar2 as well. We know the majority of 5ar in the scalp is 5ar1.

I'd like to see the invitro experiments again, and see just what concentration of azeleic acid was used and what pH this brought about and if any other cellular functions were affected and if this internal concentration is even possible with topical application and if there was a placebo group and how it was done. Since the invitro evidence is all we have, we may be able to rule it out just by looking at the experiment design. I think Bryan once said there is no invitro evidence.

 

[techprof]

college i think you are confused. I am mainly interested in the proof for spironolactone converting testestorone to estrogen

 

[docj077]

I'm interested in this, as well. In the medical field, you give spironolactone along with ACE inhibitors to patients with congestive heart failure. It would be funny if giving it causes feminization in men. Really, really funny.

 

[CCS]

interesting. I forgot who said that. I think a transvestite posted that he takes spironolactone for this reason, and gave a link to a transvestite site where others did this too, and I asked bryan how that is possible, and he said around 100-200mg it happens. What are ACE inhibitors? What dose do the men with conjestive hear failure get?

 

[docj077]

interesting. I forgot who said that. I think a transvestite posted that he takes spironolactone for this reason, and gave a link to a transvestite site where others did this too, and I asked bryan how that is possible, and he said around 100-200mg it happens. What are ACE inhibitors? What dose do the men with conjestive hear failure get?

Usually, you end up with congestive heart failure secondary to a heart attack. The inability for the left ventricle to pump blood causes increased pressures in the left atrium, then the pulmonary vasculature, and finally the right ventricle/right atrium. Once the right ventricle begins to fail, flow through the venous system is slowed and peripheral edema or fluid accumulation occurs, as well, liver failure due to congestion.

The increased pressures in the lung vasculature causes "fluid" to leak into the alveoli, which means you basically have fluid in your lungs, so you will become short of breath with the simplest of activities.

ACE inhibitors are angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors. They prevent the conversion of angiotensin to angiotensin II. Angiotension II constricts arterioles raising a persons blood pressure and forcing the heart to work harder, because there is a greater pressure for it to pump against. These ACE inhibitors prevent that constriction, which results in a larger lumen for blood to move through in the vessels and the heart doesn't have to work as hard since it is already compromised.