Feel like sh**
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Norsk
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Never had impotence, but I noticed sexual side effects on day 2. The usual advice seems to be give it some time, a few weeks, maybe a month. If it isn't any better by then, just quit. In my case the side effects never went away, though. Quit finasteride after 6 months because I noticed signs of gyno (2 months ago). Sexual side effects are still here, even though I'm off finasteride.
Just out of curiosity, how do you guys know if its finasteride?
Gyno I can understand, and total impotence as well.
But both my libido and my 'erections' go haywire anyway. Same thing when Im on finasteride. Sometimes its gone, sometimes its crazy.
It had been pretty bad a for a few days some weeks ago, then suddenly I went to bed with a girl I didnt really like. She looks okey and was desperate so I figured.. All right.
And low and behold.. Rock hard erection for a 1.5 hours intercourse even though I wasnt very in to it.
I mean, I thought that was normal, that sometimes its strong sometimes its weak. So whenever its weak, isnt it too easy to say its finasteride? And, if problems doesnt go away after use, shoudnt that be an indicator that it infact wasnt finasteride in the first place? Could still be, but makes more sense it was not.
Just curious as to how you guys think about these things.
Gyno I can understand, and total impotence as well.
But both my libido and my 'erections' go haywire anyway. Same thing when Im on finasteride. Sometimes its gone, sometimes its crazy.
It had been pretty bad a for a few days some weeks ago, then suddenly I went to bed with a girl I didnt really like. She looks okey and was desperate so I figured.. All right.
And low and behold.. Rock hard erection for a 1.5 hours intercourse even though I wasnt very in to it.
I mean, I thought that was normal, that sometimes its strong sometimes its weak. So whenever its weak, isnt it too easy to say its finasteride? And, if problems doesnt go away after use, shoudnt that be an indicator that it infact wasnt finasteride in the first place? Could still be, but makes more sense it was not.
Just curious as to how you guys think about these things.
lookhowshiny
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Don't they treat impotence with minoxidil? If you're on big3, shouldn't it be compensated in some way, no?
Eureka
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No, I'm sure sometimes this is the case, but for people who never experienced any sexual problems before taking finasteride, then experienced them while on finasteride, then continued to experience them after quitting finasteride. That's some wishful thinking hoping finasteride had nothing to do with it, fact of the matter is the stuff is lethal, it messes with your system hardcore, and sometimes systems never return to normal, which is why side effects never dissipate.
Norsk
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Libido said:
OK, here's how I know that it's finasteride. From day 2 I noticed that I never got any spontaneous erections through the day, which I normally would get all the time. My libido doesn't go up and down, it's just down all the time since I started taking proscar. I don't really have any problems with getting or keeping erections, but I do have less sensivity, orgasms feel weaker. I have never noticed anything like this before finasteride. It was probably easier for me than for other people to notice that I had sides, since they came so quickly. And completely unexpectedly, I might add, I actually believed in that 2% statistic at the time.
I spoke to my girl and we decided im gonna keep taking propecia for at least another month and then see what happens. I also lowered my dose to a 1/4 pill ( .25 mg ).
The problem is real and its not in my head. Like Norsk said, ive lost the spontaneous woods i used to get during the day, even the morning wood.
I would say i have more sensitivity in my fingers than my dick. Scary stuff since ive never had any sexual problems before.
The problem is real and its not in my head. Like Norsk said, ive lost the spontaneous woods i used to get during the day, even the morning wood.
I would say i have more sensitivity in my fingers than my dick. Scary stuff since ive never had any sexual problems before.
I'd get off and stay off if I were you and hope everything goes back to normal. I and others experienced the same thing Norsk did and you currently are, and side effects continued afterwards.
The longer you stay on the drug the longer you deprive your dick of vital DHT, nitric oxide, chemically castrate and destroy your prostate, increase your chances for gyno due to elevated Estrogens, maintain the hormonal profile of a 5AR2 deficient pseudohermaphrodite, and potentially interfere with vital neurosteroid production in the brain (Allopregnanolone, THDOC which can no longer act on GABA-A receptors).
Just trust me on this -- losing morning/spontaneous erections is a huge thing, that should tell you your FREE Testosterone levels are likely dropping and/or your Estradiol levels are on the rise. Get bloodwork to see what's up, and get off of it... the longer you stay on the more chances of things going wrong. As well, 0.25mg will make no difference, drug has near flat-dose response so 0.25mg is nearly same as 5mg in DHT surpression.
Just trying to save another guy from going through hell after Finasteride.
The longer you stay on the drug the longer you deprive your dick of vital DHT, nitric oxide, chemically castrate and destroy your prostate, increase your chances for gyno due to elevated Estrogens, maintain the hormonal profile of a 5AR2 deficient pseudohermaphrodite, and potentially interfere with vital neurosteroid production in the brain (Allopregnanolone, THDOC which can no longer act on GABA-A receptors).
Just trust me on this -- losing morning/spontaneous erections is a huge thing, that should tell you your FREE Testosterone levels are likely dropping and/or your Estradiol levels are on the rise. Get bloodwork to see what's up, and get off of it... the longer you stay on the more chances of things going wrong. As well, 0.25mg will make no difference, drug has near flat-dose response so 0.25mg is nearly same as 5mg in DHT surpression.
Just trying to save another guy from going through hell after Finasteride.
For some guys the initial ED is temporary as they adjust to the drug within a month or so, but for others it continues indefinitely while on it, and sometimes, after quitting. If you want to chance either situation, that's up to you...
As for alternatives that don't involve internal 5AR inhibition, there are plenty listed on this site, take your pick.
As for alternatives that don't involve internal 5AR inhibition, there are plenty listed on this site, take your pick.
Eureka
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Yes plenty, plenty that don't work half as well if at all compared to finasteride, Aside from maybe dutasteride, but if side effects are bothering you on finasteride you obviously don't wanna step it up a notch.
Anyway, finasteride is the best there is everything else is second to it, Others can buy you time finasteride can actually stop it.
Yes finasteride works for many people, but there are major tradeoffs for some that take it -- ie, sexual, mental, physical side effects that in certain cases do not resolve, even after quitting. Granted this is not very common but still, CAN occur.
It is up to the individual to determine wether they wish to continue with a drug... but in order to make that decision, they should have access to as much information about it's mechanisms of action and potential ramifications as possible.
And I'm sorry to say that Merck does not disclose nearly enough about what this drug is, does, or how it can affect men. It is extremely potent, and not something to be taken lightly. Ideally, men should be monitoring their hormones before, while on, and after coming off it, for starters.
Mew has definitely a point.
I think pretty much everyone agrees that the "only 2% experience sexual side effects" stat is bullshit. I suspect the % of people with lingering sides is a lot higher also.
The thing that concerns me is that even if i get blood tests done i dont know what i should be looking for. My testosterone is gonna be low, but thats what we'r trying to achieve here..or not ?
I think pretty much everyone agrees that the "only 2% experience sexual side effects" stat is bullshit. I suspect the % of people with lingering sides is a lot higher also.
The thing that concerns me is that even if i get blood tests done i dont know what i should be looking for. My testosterone is gonna be low, but thats what we'r trying to achieve here..or not ?
Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Androstenedione
DHT (not accurate compared to Adiol-G)
3alpha-diol G (Androstenediol glucuronide -- "Adiol-G" for short): metabolite of DHT, measures 5AR-II activity
Androsterone glucuronide (another metabolite of DHT that measures 5AR activity)
Estradiol (E2)
Estrone (E1)
Total Estrogens
LH
FSH
DHEA-s
Cortisol
Cortisone
Corticosterone
Aldosterone
Deoxycorticosterone
SHBG
Prolactin
Progesterone
Pregnenolone
Albumin
ACTH
PSA
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
IGF-1
CBC or FBC (Complete Blood Count/Full Blood Count)
LFT (Liver Function Tests - AST, ALT, GGT, Bilirubin, etc.)
Androgen/Estrogen ratio
Testosterone/DHT ratio
17-ketosteroids (24-hr urine sample)
-----------
Shortened must-have list:
Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Androstenedione
DHT
3alpha-diol G (Androstenediol glucuronide -- ("Adiol-G" for short): metabolite of DHT, measures 5AR-II activity
Estradiol (E2)
LH
FSH
SHBG
Prolactin
TSH
Progesterone
AST, ALT, GGT (liver function tests)
Uh no... Finasteride upregulates Testosterone levels by up to 20% in some men. All that extra T that would normally convert to DHT cannot, since you are blocking 5AR-II (and thus DHT) with Finasteride. Thus the extra T aromatizes into Estrogen, primarily Estradiol -- hence gynecomastia, weight gain, lowering of libido, ED, and possibly lowering Free Testosterone levels. Finasteride is known to alter the androgen/estrogen ratio in men in favor of estrogens.
With finasteride you are dropping your DHT (dihydrotestosterone) by ~ 70%. The goal is not to lower Testosterone, the drug does not do that while you are on it -- but for guys that have ongoing issues after they come off, they often find within a few weeks of quitting their T levels drop into the toilet (sometimes to hypogondal levels), as well as low LH, FSH, often with elevated Estradiol, Prolactin, and TSH.
So I would advise you to get bloodwork wether you continue or not.
paximperia
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The sexual side effects never completely subsided but I noticed if I have sex/masturbate less frequently then it is not a problem. It just takes more days to get into that "horny" phase. On Dutasteride it increased from needing to "relieve myself" at most once every three days to now once every seven days or so. finasteride and dutasteride both lower the rate the prostate produces fluid so this is not really surprising.
Update: I decided to quit propecia. The sexual side effects, plus the risk of other sides in the future, plus the risk of it stopping working in a couple of years and me needing to go to a stronger DHT inhibitor ( like dutasteride ) with even more extreme sides were the most imporant factors in this decision.
Between living with impotence and baldness id rather take baldness. The feeling i used to get when i couldnt "perform" with my fiance does not even come close to the feeling of loosing my hair. Im still gonna try to keep my hair as long as i can though, through means not so invasive to my body. I just ordered the complete revivogen treatment, hopefully i respond good to it.
GL to everyone else out there.
Edit: Also i wanted to add i returned to normal as far as sex is concerned. Last night i had some great sex with my girl for the first time in about a month. Feels great to be back to my old self.
Between living with impotence and baldness id rather take baldness. The feeling i used to get when i couldnt "perform" with my fiance does not even come close to the feeling of loosing my hair. Im still gonna try to keep my hair as long as i can though, through means not so invasive to my body. I just ordered the complete revivogen treatment, hopefully i respond good to it.
GL to everyone else out there.
Edit: Also i wanted to add i returned to normal as far as sex is concerned. Last night i had some great sex with my girl for the first time in about a month. Feels great to be back to my old self.