finasteride 5 days and already have breast pain
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blueshard
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I can't tell you how f*****g upset this bullshit makes me.
I can't not use propecia because I can't use topicals. Everything fucks up my scalp.
Natural internals DO NOT f*****g WORK for me.
Do I have to completely eliminate estrogen from my body to not experience this gyno?
I can't not use propecia because I can't use topicals. Everything fucks up my scalp.
Natural internals DO NOT f*****g WORK for me.
Do I have to completely eliminate estrogen from my body to not experience this gyno?
blueshard said:
I keep on posting the same old sh*t
Try either bromocriptine or Cabergoline. Both work great for reducing gyno. If you insist on the SERM route evista (raloxifene) is a good bet.
From experience with both steroids and finasteride serm's were less effective than bromo and especially cabergoline which has the bonus of increasing libido at the same time.
blueshard said:
Gyno is quite complex. Take certain steroids like tren which don't convert to estrogen yet can cause gyno. Bromo/Cabergoline work well there. My personal experience is that at a time when I was taking no steroids for 6 months I noticed puffiness and nolva while useful didn't do that much. I took bromo and it worked very quick within a few days and cabergoline is even better.
Just because finasteride has an effect on gyno by increasing estrogen levesl doesnt mean it isn't having an effect which causes elevated prolactin or possibly acts as a progestin even. People oversimplify the science on this board compared to the bodybuilding boards I mainly read. Steroids like deca, trenbolone, superdrol have all been linked to gyno and none converts to estrogen. Yet in all cases prolactin inhibitors seem to work well.
People should try either bromo or cabergoline and then report back. I have taken upto 2.5mg a day of finasteride with 750mg of test a week and 100mg of trenbolone a day for the past two weeks. Gyno symptoms came on quick and have been repelled by the cabergoline. In the past bromo which is cheaper has done the same job. With all that estrogen produced by all that test converting to estrogen AND the high dose of finasteride you would think I would need to be taking an SERM but instead cabergoline has done the trick. I know there is plenty of estrogen in my system still from how bloated I am so you'd think it would be causing gyno badly but like I say the problem was nipped in the bud.
lomo1 said:
As an aside you may as well grind that stuff up and eat it for all the benefit it will do. To reduce estrogen as much as possible requires a combined approach of an aromatase inhibitor like femara/arimidex/aromasin with a an SERM like evista/nolvadex. That will do as much as anything to reduce systemic estrogen with the AI and then esnure there is a competing substance at the level of breast tissue (the SERM).
These drugs are what is used in breast cancer. I don't think many docs will be recommending DIM and turmeric to their patients any time soon
it is safe to wait 2 months for side effects to die down. If they don't by then, they probably won't. gyno won't become permenant until after at least 6 months.
i think topical fatty acids (not fat or oils, but free fatty acids) might help you. Bryan says that ALA is a strong 5ar inhibitor, and i doubt it would give your scalp trouble. I just don't know if it absorbed well enough to have a high enough concentration where it is needed. Revivogen sells overpriced fatty acids. I can make my own, but i have access to a lab.
Bryan, do you have any invivo studies with fatty acids used to suppress 5ar2? Do you think pure fatty acids need a penetration enhancer?
Bryan said there was a study with 20% fatty acid in alcohol, but I have not seen it and would like to see more. There are supposed to be some on http://www.revivogen.com, but i searched there and could not find any. The site was just one big dumb ad that barely listed ingredients.
i think topical fatty acids (not fat or oils, but free fatty acids) might help you. Bryan says that ALA is a strong 5ar inhibitor, and i doubt it would give your scalp trouble. I just don't know if it absorbed well enough to have a high enough concentration where it is needed. Revivogen sells overpriced fatty acids. I can make my own, but i have access to a lab.
Bryan, do you have any invivo studies with fatty acids used to suppress 5ar2? Do you think pure fatty acids need a penetration enhancer?
Bryan said there was a study with 20% fatty acid in alcohol, but I have not seen it and would like to see more. There are supposed to be some on http://www.revivogen.com, but i searched there and could not find any. The site was just one big dumb ad that barely listed ingredients.
I found the studies. there were only two that were relevant. GLA was done in vivo. It works at concentrations of less than 10/1000,000 moles per liter. Zinc works at concentrations 1000 times that high in vitro, and azelaic acid words at concentration 500 times that high, and only in vitro.
The invivo study and the low concentration requirement make me believe it may be a good treatment, but I don't know how much is in Revivogen since they don't say.
I can easily make my own, though. The two next best fatty acids are cheap. I just need to find a cheaper source of borage seed oil to get the GLA.
Yeah, but you should looking into revivogen. It might be a good treatment. I just don't know how much GLA and ALA and linoleic acid are in there. I think I recognised some omega-3's high on the list, but I could be wrong, since they gave the IUPAC name. Fish oil is cheap too.
The invivo study and the low concentration requirement make me believe it may be a good treatment, but I don't know how much is in Revivogen since they don't say.
I can easily make my own, though. The two next best fatty acids are cheap. I just need to find a cheaper source of borage seed oil to get the GLA.
Yeah, but you should looking into revivogen. It might be a good treatment. I just don't know how much GLA and ALA and linoleic acid are in there. I think I recognised some omega-3's high on the list, but I could be wrong, since they gave the IUPAC name. Fish oil is cheap too.
blueshard
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Nah, I can't do Revivogen. It has Azelaic Acid and alcohol and my scalp does not like that stuff. I have a seriously hypersensitive scalp. Maybe it is the mites eating my follicles, I dunno (haha).
I really appreciate your input though, very kind of you.
Do you think that oils such as emu/jojoba would help topically?
I really appreciate your input though, very kind of you.
Do you think that oils such as emu/jojoba would help topically?
no. I don't. In a 3 month "study" probably by researchers paid by companies to get good results, corn oil regrew 80% as much hair as emu oil.
In a slightly longer study, joboba oil in grapeseed oil did not regrow hair.
Your best bet is to optain the free fatty acids somehow, cheaply. Oleic is very cheap, but also very weak. if you can get access to hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide, i can tell you how to separate them from moderately cheap flax seed oil, but you would need a a very accurate balance that reads thousanths of a gram.
Your best bet is to use a pressure cooker and water, but I don't know how long it would take. i'll try to calculate it, and if i succeed, I'll let you know how long is necessary and what to do afterwards.
In a slightly longer study, joboba oil in grapeseed oil did not regrow hair.
Your best bet is to optain the free fatty acids somehow, cheaply. Oleic is very cheap, but also very weak. if you can get access to hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide, i can tell you how to separate them from moderately cheap flax seed oil, but you would need a a very accurate balance that reads thousanths of a gram.
Your best bet is to use a pressure cooker and water, but I don't know how long it would take. i'll try to calculate it, and if i succeed, I'll let you know how long is necessary and what to do afterwards.
The active ingredients of Revivogen are natural compounds proven to inhibit of 5-Alpha-Reductase (the enzyme that produces DHT), block the androgen receptors and stimulate hair growth. These active ingredients include Gamma Linolenic acid (GLA), Alpha Linolenic acid (ALA), Linoleic Acid, Oleic Acid, Azaleic acid, Vitamin B6, Zinc, Saw Palmetto Extract, Beta-Sitosterol and Procyanidin Oligomers. Revivogenâ„¢ is the only product that contains these ingredients in one easy to use topical formula..
Someone tell me why reviviogen has oleic acid in it? I think it is because oleic acid is cheap, and lets them claim it has 40% fatty acids, even though oleic acid is the weakest acid with some 5ar blocking ability.
Revivogen does have some apple stuff in it, the Procyanidin Oligomers, but it does not say how much.
I refuse to encourge any company to not list ingredient percentages by buying their product. Well, i did buy a few, but they were very cheap and very reputable, folligen being one, and i knew the ideal dose.
Someone tell me why reviviogen has oleic acid in it? I think it is because oleic acid is cheap, and lets them claim it has 40% fatty acids, even though oleic acid is the weakest acid with some 5ar blocking ability.
Revivogen does have some apple stuff in it, the Procyanidin Oligomers, but it does not say how much.
I refuse to encourge any company to not list ingredient percentages by buying their product. Well, i did buy a few, but they were very cheap and very reputable, folligen being one, and i knew the ideal dose.