finasteride along with a estrogen (arotamase) inhibitor

[George Costanza]

I've been on spironolactone for 8 months now and I have less hair now then when I started.

So I'm thinking about getting on finasteride now but my main concern is elevated levels of estrogen which could result in gyno and extra body fat. I was wondering if anybody has tried chrysin or something else to inhibit arotamase.

 

[George Costanza]

Anybody with 6-oxo experience?

 

[BadHairDecade]

Your chances of getting Gyno or Estrogen related SE's are slim to none. Don't worry about unless it happens. 6-OXO is also supposed to raise test levels which is probably not a good thing for combatting hairloss. Personally I wouldn't touch that stuff.
If you do start to notice Gyno get on Nolvadex. It seems to be helping mine and it's proven to work.
Other things that are thought to help combat high E levels are flax seeds and green tea.

 

[George Costanza]

Thanks for the info BHD. I just read a little on nolvadex while ago and it seems like some good stuff gyno or not.

 

[Bryan]

Chrysin doesn't work. Avoid.

Bryan

 

[drinkrum]

You can experiment with Arimidex (anastrozole) or Femara (letrozole). Both are potent aromatase inhibitors and as such will increase T levels and decrease E2 (estradiol).

I fool around with 1/4 Arimidex per week and am concerning that bumping up the dosage might result in contradicting finasteride's effect on hair loss. So I suggest monitoring your E2, T, DHT levels while screwing around with such drugs.

D.

 

[drinkrum]

Chrysin doesn't work. Avoid.

Bryan

I concur with Bryan.

D.

 

[Bismarck]

Perhaps a testosteron creme or something like that applied on the area of concern would do the job?

 

[hair mchair]

You can experiment with Arimidex (anastrozole) or Femara (letrozole). Both are potent aromatase inhibitors and as such will increase T levels and decrease E2 (estradiol).

I fool around with 1/4 Arimidex per week and am concerning that bumping up the dosage might result in contradicting finasteride's effect on hair loss. So I suggest monitoring your E2, T, DHT levels while screwing around with such drugs.

D.

Drinkrum,

Do you know what your IGF-1 levels are? Next time you get a blood test, you might want to check, as Arimidex can lower IGF-1.

Don't think I've ever heard of Femara before. I use Exemestane (aromasin) myself, but I'm not on finasteride.

 

[Bismarck]

Isn't IGF-1 supposed to play a major role in hair growth?

 

[hair mchair]

Isn't IGF-1 supposed to play a major role in hair growth?

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/html/zincoxide2.cfm

Scroll down just a tad and click on "Insulin-like growth factor and hair growth."

 

[George Costanza]

Guys, I'm curious about something. Even if you used a aromatase inhibitor which resulted in an increase in T, how could that hurt your hair if your on finasteride. It seems to me that if only 30% of the 5 AR enzyme is left in your body, then your only going to have 30% of your normal dht levels regardless of your T levels. I mean your already going to have extra T floating around anyway once you take finasteride, so how could a bump in T from another source result in more dht? I'm curious.

 

[Bismarck]

Guys, I'm curious about something. Even if you used a aromatase inhibitor which resulted in an increase in T, how could that hurt your hair if your on finasteride. It seems to me that if only 30% of the 5 AR enzyme is left in your body, then your only going to have 30% of your normal dht levels regardless of your T levels. I mean your already going to have extra T floating around anyway once you take finasteride, so how could a bump in T from another source result in more dht? I'm curious.

Hey, good point that's what I thought too. The enzymes can only produce a limited amount of DHT out of T. But perhaps the model isn't correct...

 

[drinkrum]

Do you know what your IGF-1 levels are? Next time you get a blood test, you might want to check, as Arimidex can lower IGF-1.

Don't think I've ever heard of Femara before. I use Exemestane (aromasin) myself, but I'm not on finasteride.

Hair,

Femara is in the same class as Arimidex, but has been shown to actually increase IGF levels vis-a-vis Arimidex.

Did you actually get a E2, DHT, T blood test done, Hair? And if so, what were your results? Did you indeed have high E2 levels? How is the aromasin working out for you (as it is some strong stuff)?

D.

 

[drinkrum]

Guys, I'm curious about something. Even if you used a aromatase inhibitor which resulted in an increase in T, how could that hurt your hair if your on finasteride. It seems to me that if only 30% of the 5 AR enzyme is left in your body, then your only going to have 30% of your normal dht levels regardless of your T levels. I mean your already going to have extra T floating around anyway once you take finasteride, so how could a bump in T from another source result in more dht? I'm curious.

Finasteride is a synthetic 4-azasteroid that acts as a specific competitive inhibitor of the 5-AR isozyme. That means that it blocks the formation of DHT by competing with testosterone on the 5-AR isozyme receptor site. The extra T results from the finasteride "blocking up" the enzyme and not letting the T convert into DHT. However, when you add more T to the situation, the likelihood that it will be converted into DHT increases as there is more T to compete with the same amount of finasteride for the receptor sites.

Recall the canine study where high levels of anastrozole and finasteride were given, resulting in increased prostate volume, increased T, and increased DHT:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

Bryan, anything to add to this conversation?

D.

 

[George Costanza]

That means that it blocks the formation of DHT by competing with testosterone on the 5-AR isozyme receptor site. The extra T results from the finasteride "blocking up" the enzyme and not letting the T convert into DHT. However, when you add more T to the situation, the likelihood that it will be converted into DHT increases as there is more T to compete with the same amount of finasteride for the receptor sites.

O.K. But how about a estrogen blocker instead of an aromatase inhibitor. Isn't Nolvadex a blocker instead of an inhibitor. Are there any other treatments out there to decrease/block estrogen without elevating T levels much?

 

[dave2004]

I'm still not sure if i have gyno but i have definatley had an increase in fat in my chest since starting finasteride (and i have been excercising more than ever ironically). I have bought a product called DIM (diindoylmethane) which is supposed to help reduce bad estrogen and promote good estrogen. The substance it found naturally in vegtables such as brocalli and cabbage, and is also thought to reduce the risk of certain cancers.

There is lots of information available on it around the web,

Today was my first day taking it so it may be a while before i can comment on its effect. I have also reduced my finasteride from 1.25g to 0.80g a day.

If DIM has no benefit I will need to consider nolvadex, i just thought it was worth a try first since i have read lots of good reports on it and there doesnt appear to be any side effects. I may be proved wrong however, i will keep you informed.

BHD - Good to hear you are possibly seeing some improvment, have you dropped the finasteride completley now? Also did u notice any decrease in the swelling in your chest on novaldex or has it helped with the lump?

Dave.

 

[George Costanza]

Well I've ordered my finasteride but i would like to have a blood test to check my baseline t, dht, E levels before starting. I guess I need to see an endocrinologyst.

Drinkrum, have you had a blood test? If so what were the before and after numbers?

 

[drinkrum]

I never had before/after blood tests. But I did have two sets of blood tests done. One by a GP and later by an authority on reproductive endocrinology at Harvard.

In the first, my total T was just above the given range and my total estrogens were about double the normal range. That led me to go see the specialist who did a more thorough T, E2, DHT test. She mentioned that the total estrogen assay done earlier is inaccurate and rarely prescribed -- a single test of E2 is the best measurement for estrogenic excess. The new numbers came out normal: T was high but within normal bounds, E2 was 34 pg/ml (<50 is fine), and DHT was low at 13 (normal is 30-80). Clearly, the finasteride was and is working.

The E2, though within normal ranges and although the doctor at Harvard urged me not to use Arimidex, seemed high to me so I started to experiment with Arimidex. Nothing conclusive as of yet.

D.

 

[Kevin fretwell]

Very interesting , I didn't know until now there was a drug to counter gyno .Makes me more confident at using a dutasteride topical with finasteride .