Finasteride - Food and its affect on finasteride absorption

socks

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I'm a pretty active member on another hairloss board and I came across an interesting thread regarding food's effect on Finasteride absorption.


There are no absolute answers here but I thought I would share nevertheless:

In regard to fiber Bryan writes:

I wouldn't take ANY medication around the same time that I get any significant amount of soluble fiber. The 500 mg of apple pectin probably isn't a significant amount, but I bet the fiber in the oatmeal IS. And oat fiber is about 50/50 soluble/insoluble, if I recall correctly.

Peter Mac goes on to say:

sometimes any food (fiber included) can completely ruin the effects of certain sensitive medications.

It was furthermore noted that:

I take Propecia on an empty stomach every morning. I'll usually do some exercise following that like riding an exercise bike before breakfast to give the drug time to be absorbed before I eat. I also try to avoid taking multi vitamins with a high fiber meal as I believe the fiber reduces the effectiveness of the multivitamins (many articles written to support this as well in body building mags).

Some interesting links provided by Peter Mac are:

The Physician and Sportsmedicine - Avoiding Food-Drug Interactions

Cyberatlantis Grape Juice Tip (near bottom of page)

Cyberatlantis grape juice article


Bottom line:

Some food/vitamins/minerals may interfere with certain medication's ability to absorb properly into the body thus decreasing their effectiveness while grapefruit juice may **INCREASE** the amount of medicine that is absorbed in certain medications.


I am neither endorsing nor encouraging any theory or ideas expressed here. I just wanted to pass it along to anyone here who may be interested!
 

socks

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A little bit of an update:

Bottom line on grapefruit juice/food and Finasteride

Grapefruit juice (even if it did work to double Finasteride intake of 1.25mg to 2.5mg) would likely only produce a very small marginal difference in DHT blood serum levels.

GRAPH8.GIF


Adding to this, since going from 1mg of Finasteride to 5mg only produces marginal benefits to androgenetic alopecia going from 1.25mg to 2.5mg would produce slim if any marginal benefits.

However, if one is taking .2mg of Finasteride there does seem to be a significant drop in DHT levels going to .5mg. This being the case, if grapefruit juice did work as theorized, then it might be of some use to men who want to save some money splitting the Finasteride into .2mg doses and taking grapefruit juice to bump the effect to that of .5mg.


Taking Finasteride at bedtime 3hrs after your last meal to ensure there are no food/drug negative interactions seems like a good idea (it also seems to be a good idea with any medication unless it specifically tell you to eat prior to ingestion).
 

Old Baldy

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Socks: I've never read any study that states finasteride. gets bound to food in the digestive tract. All studies I've read indicate finasteride. passes through the intestinal tract intact and is metabolized by the liver.

Btw, alot of "chemicals" are metabolized this way. Food has no impact on these types of "chemicals".
 

Bryan

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Soluble fiber in general has a tendency to absorb food elements like vitamins and minerals, and carry them through the system un-utilized. The concern is that it _might_ also absorb drugs taken along with it. Better to be safe than sorry.

Bryan
 

Old Baldy

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Well, we disagree on this one guys. finasteride. and many other chemicals pass through the intesinal tract intact and food simply has no effect on how much is eventually placed into our systems.
 

Bryan

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Old Baldy, that's not true. Merck states on their own Web site that finasteride is metabolized by the CYP3A4 family of enzymes. Grapefruit juice contains substances that are CYP3A4 inhibitors, so that one particular food (grapefruit juice) can definitley decrease the metabolization of finasteride, thereby increasing the effective dose.

Bryan
 

too bald too furious

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There is no mention of taking Propecia at any particular time or with/without any particular food on Merck's website.

Is there any doctor who has advised this?
 

socks

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Old Baldy said:
Socks: I've never read any study that states finasteride. gets bound to food in the digestive tract. All studies I've read indicate finasteride. passes through the intestinal tract intact and is metabolized by the liver.

Btw, alot of "chemicals" are metabolized this way. Food has no impact on these types of "chemicals".

Old Baldy,

My simplistic understanding of this subject goes like this:

Both food and pharmaceuticals drugs are chemicals that are broken down and used by your body. Chemicals can sometimes have a negative or positive effect on one another when mixed. Since every drug that is released may not be fully documented with all food interactions it may be possible for there to be an unknown interaction of sorts when mixing food and medication.

In other words, taking meds on an empty stomach (unless directed otherwise) may be the safer way of going about things.

nexus81 said:
There is no mention of taking Propecia at any particular time or with/without any particular food on Merck's website.

There is a mention on Merck website that Finasteride "is metabolized by the CYP3A4 family of enzymes" (according to Bryan... Havent verified myself but I think it is safe to say that if that is what Bryan says they say then that is what they say :D )

As far as "any particular food", they may not mention any particular food but does that rule out definitively that Finasteride has no interaction with any type of food? Bryan already stated that, "Soluble fiber in general has a tendency to absorb food elements like vitamins and minerals, and carry them through the system un-utilized".


Finally, if one is to subscribe to the theory that food may interact in some negative way with Finasteride then the conservative approach might be to take Finasteride before bed 3hrs after your last meal.
 

Old Baldy

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The attached information from Merck states finasteride. is extensively metabolized in the liver, not the digestive tract. Look at page two of the study below.

http://www.usrf.org/news/070703_fin...t.pdf#search='how is finasteride metabolized'

Bryan is correct though when he says some of those enzymes that metabolize finasteride. are in the gut. However, let me repeat, that Merck states finasteride. is extensively metabolized in the liver, not the gut.

http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=-1019936698

Note: The study does state grapefruit juice can inhibit the 3a4 enzymes. So more of the finasteride. can pass through "untouched" so to speak. However, the liver does the "extensive" amount of metabolization - enough to not worry about food consumption when taking finasteride.

I hate to use such a flippant remark, but taking finasteride. with or without food is a non-issue IMHO. Although grapefruit juice DOES inhibit 3a4 activity as Bryan said.

If the studies stated that finasteride. is metabolized extensively in the gut, then I would DEFINITELY agree that taking it with or without food would make a big difference. But it is mainly metabolized in the liver.

Oh well, you guys decide.
 

Bryan

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You have to "read between the lines" of what Merck is saying. What they're saying (between the lines) is that if you take a Propecia or Proscar tablet every day, you don't need to be concerned about the CYP3A4 enzymes in the gut. That's because even if the enzymes DO inactivate a certain percentage of the active drug in those tablets, the tablet still has enough of the drug in it to get enough into your system to do its job (that's because of finasteride's well-known "flat" dose-response curve).

So in that specific sense, Merck is correct to say that it's ok to take those tablets with or without food. However, they ARE in fact affected by those enzymes in the gut, and you almost certainly CAN increase the absorption of finasteride by taking the tablets along with grapefruit juice. But that would only be an important consideration if you were taking a small "micro-dose" in the first place. You have to understand all the nuances involved here.

Bryan
 

Old Baldy

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I do understand (I think) Bryan. One mg of finasteride. will survive, through the gut, to deliver enough "medicine" to the liver, where it is extensively metabolized to do what is designed to do. That's why taking with or without food is not important.
 

Bryan

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Yes. A somewhat different situation would be the case of dutasteride. When the stuff first became available a couple of years ago, some guys were wanting to use the same 2.5 mg/day dose which performed the best in Glaxo's trial. But at that time Avodart was about 2 bucks a pop, and people didn't relish (or mustard) paying $10 a day for five capsules. That's a good example of how using grapefruit juice could be very smart: only a couple of capsules along with a tall glass of grapefruit juice _may_ be just about as good as taking 5 real Avodarts!

Bryan
 

Old Baldy

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Good example Bryan. I do understand that many drugs and supplements should not be taken with food or mixed with something else.

Socks: I hear what you are saying and understand. It's just hard for a layman like me to "really" know these types of things if you know what I mean.

For example, sometimes my worry is if I take a drug on an empty stomach it gets into my system too fast.

Being a layman I must trust the manufacturers' instructions or I will drive myself crazier than I already am relative to how to take a drug or supplement.

It's very hard for me to make decisions without an intrinsic knowledge of chemistry and how chemicals interact. I read something and understand it basically but not "deeply" like a professional would. That's why I just follow the manufacturers' guidelines.

I hear what you guys are saying and you obviously could be right.
 

socks

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Old Baldy said:
Socks: I hear what you are saying and understand. It's just hard for a layman like me to "really" know these types of things if you know what I mean.

I understand exactly what you mean! I consider myself a layman as well and like to keep things as simple as possible in practice

For example, sometimes my worry is if I take a drug on an empty stomach it gets into my system too fast.

Being a layman I must trust the manufacturers' instructions or I will drive myself crazier than I already am relative to how to take a drug or supplement.

Couldnt agree more and that is what I think 99.9% of people should do!


However, personally I enjoy dabbling in some of the more theoretical and complex questions for sh*t and giggles and to expand my overall understand in general just a little bit :) But in practice (for the most part) I'm going to do the same as you: "trust the manufacturers' instructions"
 
G

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article from:
http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1996/05_96/food_drg.htm



A Delicate Mix: Avoiding Food-Drug Interactions

Susan M. Kleiner, PhD, RD
THE PHYSICIAN AND SPORTSMEDICINE - VOL 24 - NO. 5 - MAY 96

------------------------------------------------------------------------

You walk out of your doctor's office with a prescription and head to the nearest pharmacy. Pills in hand, you hightail it home to take the first dose and wait for relief from whatever ails you. But as you force open the childproof cap, you begin to wonder: "Should I take this on an empty stomach? Is it OK to take with orange juice, or should I drink water, or maybe milk?"

As you read the instructions and contraindications sheet given to you by the pharmacist, you begin to wonder whether you really want to take this medication at all. Can it be affected by the food that you eat? Should you stop taking your vitamin supplement? And what will it do to your exercise routine?

Most of us have lived through this scenario at least once. Even though we may take many different kinds of medications throughout our lives, we know very little about how they react and interact in our bodies. Your best resources to answer your questions are your doctor and a pharmacist. But here's an overview of some common food-drug interactions to look out for.

Chemical Cocktail

Like drugs, the food that we eat is a mixture of chemical compounds. When food and drugs are mixed, they can interact with each other, losing their effectiveness and causing reactions in your body.

Not all drugs will be affected by the food that you eat, but some very common drugs do interact with the nutrients and chemicals in food (see "Food and Pharmacology"). Since having food in your stomach can delay the absorption of many drugs, it is usually best to take drugs on an empty stomach. However, some drugs can irritate the stomach, so they should be taken with food.

Delaying the absorption of a drug does not alter its function--it just takes longer for it to work. But when foods and drugs interact, the drug's effectiveness can be changed. For instance, taking a mineral supplement or eating a food high in minerals at the same time that you take a drug can cause the minerals to bind (combine) with the drug and reduce the amount of the drug your body absorbs. The drug won't help you if you absorb less than the recommended dosage.

Other drugs can bind with nutrients in your body and cause nutrient loss, which means that taking these types of drugs over a long period may impair your health. Sometimes you can counteract a drug's side effects by eating certain foods. For example, many antibiotics eliminate not only the infectious organisms, but also the natural organisms that maintain critical balances in your body. These imbalances can result in diarrhea and vaginal yeast infections. Research has shown that eating foods that contain active Lactobacillus acidophilus bacteria (found in most yogurts) can help eliminate these side effects. The bacteria can also be found in liquid, powder, pill, or capsule form at most health food stores (1).

For the most part, your workout routine shouldn't be affected by the timing of your medication. But some medications can affect how your heart functions, so it is always wise to check with your doctor about drug use and physical exertion.

Play It Safe

No matter what kind of drug you are taking, some general rules apply (2):

* Read your prescription label. If you need more information, ask your doctor or a pharmacist.
* For all drugs--prescription and over-the-counter--read all directions, warnings, and interaction precautions on labels, packages, inserts, and information pages.
* Take medication with a full glass of water to enhance absorption, unless your doctor tells you otherwise.
* Don't mix medications into your food. This can change how the drug works.
* Don't take vitamin and mineral supplements with medications because they can interact with drugs.
* Don't mix medications with hot drinks. This may destroy the drug's effectiveness.
* Never take medications with alcohol.

Keep in mind that there are always new drugs on the market, and this article can barely begin a complete list of food-drug interactions. Always check with your doctor or a pharmacist about how to take a drug that is unfamiliar to you.
References
 

Old Baldy

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You know Tynan, I read that article before but missed the suggestion saying not to take drugs with hot drinks. I missed that one. Thanks for posting the article. It always helps me to read things more than once.

Btw, isn't alcohol medicine in and of itself? :wink:
 
G

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Old Baldy said:
You know Tynan, I read that article before but missed the suggestion saying not to take drugs with hot drinks. I missed that one. Thanks for posting the article. It always helps me to read things more than once.

Btw, isn't alcohol medicine in and of itself? :wink:

Alcohol is the miracle medicine.
 

Temples

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I do know one thing guys: when I first started taking finasteride I was taking grapefruit extract for weight loss and it GREATLY increased the finasteride absorbtion. So much so that I felt like I was dying at times.

Bryan, if taking meds with grapefruit juice can increase absorbtion, what can taking them with grapefruit extract do?

300.jpg


The supplement facts can be viewed here:

http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod. ... atid=26728

BTW, for anyone looking for a non-stimulant appetite supressant, I highly recommend Mega-G. I never could have stuck to my diet without it. You can find them at Wal-Mart. However, if you're taking meds, I would be extremely careful!
 
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