Finasteride User For 12 Years / Thinking About Trying Cabergoline (dostinex) / Bloodwork / Gyno

[memoryboy]

Hey there!


A little back story at first to put things in perspective.
You can also skip this and go below straight to the current affairs

Maybe someone can help with advice and suggestions and help me to make more sense of my blood work.


I'm now 36, I've been taking 1mg finasteride for 12 years. In recent years I also some period took 0,5mg. I started loosing my hair in my early twenties, became aware of it around when I was 23-24 and was given finasteride by a dermatologist. I jumped on 1mg finasteride and been on it ever since. With a few small breaks here and there. I've pretty much kept all of my hair. Back then there was almost no information about side-effects. And I didn't think I had 'em, but with the information out now and seeing the variety of side effects it can produce, I now think I have some side effects creeped up. I think they have appeared slowly over time, so it's been hard to pinpoint 'em.

I stopped finasteride around a year ago for a few months as I was getting more and more informed and alarmed about what this could do (real) long term or already has done. In the same time there was also shortage to buy it in local pharmacies, so I was kind of forced dry. Since my hair was pretty much perfect (with some loss in the hairline that happened before I got on finasteride), I also started to think maybe finasteride wasn't doing too much. Boy, was I wrong. Only with a few months off, I started massive shedding all over my head and also lost quite a bit of ground from my hairline. I became depressed and since my urologogist/andrologist doctor said, it's all good and denies any side effects that I have is from finasteride and it would be safe to continue, I decided to continue with it. I know, maybe a shitty decision, but I was already committed and there was no other options for hair loss.

But I'm living in a small country with the andrology field in his baby steps and even though the doctor is the most known in his field in my country, he is fully 100% pro-finasteride. So I'm starting to doubt his credibility. In my county either doctors don't know anything about finasteride (for hair loss) or a few that know, are 100% pro-finasteride as they have been prescribing it for years. In my country less than 100 people take finasteride for hair loss. And probably way less so long term. So it's also very likely they haven't seen many people with side effects.

Anyway, my main concern right now is some gyno. It's not really noticeable but I know it's there and It's been there for years, I just didn't put the dots together and had no idea about it and that it could be from finasteride. When I started taking finasteride, it wasn't even listed on the side effect sheet. And I wasn't really cruising these forums as my hair was good and I didn't know to complain.

I often have this light weird feeling in my chest and nipples. And when I squeeze a small pumps in areolas around nipples then some clear liquid comes out. Nipples are also weird to touch sometimes and I sometimes I have pains in my chest. Again, doctor denies anything is from finasteride.

I did mammography and it said I have "minimally prominent glands" in left 1,2x0,6cm and 1x0,2cm in right.

I have OK chest muscles, I'm with muscular build and now I've also gained a bit of weight and fat, so I guess one cannot really tell (thank god), but I guess it's there.

My other problems. I'm not saying all of them or maybe any is connected to finasteride. They didn't change when I was off finasteride for a few months.

Very poor fertility
Low amount of semen, often watery
Really long refractory period after orgasm (this bothers me a lot)
Libido could be better
Erections could be better (I often use Cialis but I know I'm also too much of a perfectionist)
Weird crouch pain
I sweat super easily and a lot. Annoyingly so.
Dry eyes

So, I'm now considering my options.

I tried Minoxidil for 7 months and I think I lost ground from my hairline, not won anything.
Thinking whether I should continue with it or not.

I know that if I drop finasteride, I might go from full head of hair to completely bald in a matter of a year.
So, when I drop it, I guess it's better to shave it all of. I've never had shaved head, so it's a bit frightening but I'm considering this more and more. Some time ago, I would have never considered it.

The other part of me wants to continue with finasteride and maybe do a small transplant to my hairline.
And hope that maybe, just maybe some other options comes along in a few years. I know, a fools hope. When I first jumped on it 12 years ago, I also thought there surely should be other options by now. And there is nothing. There's some awesome developments that you hear and read about but nothing is out.

Unfortunately I don't have baseline values before taking finasteride.

I have been taking blood work the past two years.

At the moment I have high prolactin. Not crazy high but out from range, and enough to cause problems it seems. The doctor didn't think anything from it and didn't want to prescribe me anything.
Maybe someone can also comment and help to give me some more sense of my numbers.

two months ago:

TSH 2.30 (0.27 – 4.20 mU/L)
FSH 6.7 (1.5 – 12.4 U/L)
LH 5.94 (1.70 – 8.60 U/L)
Free androgen Index >100.00 (35–92.60%)
Testosterone 22.41 (8.64 – 29.00 nmol/L)
S-SHBG 21.63 (18.30 – 54.10 nmol/L)
PSA <=1.400 μg/L

a month ago, some additional measures

TSH 3.58 (0.27 – 4.20 mU/L)
Prolactin 358 (86 – 324 mU/L)
Estradiol 104.1 (in some reason I don't have reference values)

I'm thinking to have another blood work done to be sure. As my prolactin was normal a year ago.
And I'm thinking to try Cabergoline (Dostinex) to counter gyno, low libido and long refractory period after orgasm. What do you think?

What should be the dosage? I've read around 0,25mg a few times a week.

I've also thinking to add supplements like Alchemy and 9-MBC

To get prolactin down and to see if those things improve.
If they are from prolactin, I guess I have to seriously consider dropping finasteride and see if my prolactin will stay normal with more DHT back in my system. Or maybe they would go normal when I still continue with finasteride.
With finasteride it seems it always affects more than just DHT.

I've also read people taking
Letrozole (Femara)
Tamoxifen (Nolvadex)
Raloxifene (Elvista)

Any suggestions or experience with those?

Here are some of my numbers from a year ago (from a different lab)


DHT 0,36 nmol/l (1.03 – 2,92) This is of course low due to taking finasteride
Free testosterone in serum 43,8 pmol/l (24,3 – 78,8)
Androstenedione 2,97 nmol/l (4,50-13,10)
TSH 2,50 mIU/l (0,40 – 4,00)
FSH 7,2 IU/l (1,4 – 18,1)
LH 4,82 IU/l (1,5-9,3)
Estradiol 120,2 pmol/l <146,0
Testosterone 12,8 nmol/l (8,0-29,0) was low then
S-SHBG 15 nmol/l (15-95)
Free androgen index 85,1% (15,0-80,0)
Prolactin 184 mIU/l (53-360) This was OK then!
Vitamin D 128,0 nmol/l >75,0

What was strange was that I had high testosterone when taking finasteride and did a test more than a tear ago. Then I dropped finasteride, and testosterone dropped too (a lot from around 23 to 12 or 14). When I started finasteride again, testosterone recovered after a while.

Here's blood work from more two years ago, just before having that break in taking finastride.

FSH 6.7 (1,5 .. 12,4 U/L)
LH 3.93 (1.70 .. 8.6 U/L)
Free androgen index >100.00 (35.00 .. 92.60 %)
Testosterone 22.49 (11.40 .. 27.90 nmol/L)
S-SHBG 20.90 (18.60 .. 54.10 nmol/L)
Estradiol 121.8 (>223.0 pmol/L)

 

[memoryboy]

I would highly appreciate if someone could shed some more light into taking Cabergoline (Dostinex). To counter gyno, libido and refractory period.

And/or Letrozole (Femara), Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Raloxifene (Elvista)

And supplements like Alchemy and 9-MBC. I've read that these could potentially help and should be probably tried first before the above harder drugs.

And if someone could comment my blood work that would be even more amazing.

I'm thinking maybe I could at least continue with finasteride, until I get in really good shape.
So going bald would be less dramatic to my looks and smv.

 

[Manochoice]

Hey man, thanks for your in depth sharing. (Am just curious what country u are from – so small that only 100 people take finasteride).

Have you had an increase in side effects after or while quitting for those few months?

The sides that you mentioned are all reported by various users on many platforms so they could well be strictly from the use of finasteride (I mean they are also listed at sides on all medical platforms).

Very poor fertility – did you get a spermogram? How do you know of the poor fertility?
Low amount of semen, often watery (definitely identified as a finasteride side)
Really long refractory period after orgasm (this bothers me a lot) – what do you mean by that? How long?
Libido could be better – what do you mean could be better? Is it bothersome at this time? Did it improve while off finasteride?
Erections could be better (I often use Cialis but I know I'm also too much of a perfectionist) – I am the same age as you, never used anti androgens and never had this issue so don’t blame your age for this.
Weird crouch pain- again, reported often as a finasteride side
I sweat super easily and a lot. Annoyingly so.- this could happen due to hormonal changes whether you or on anti-androgens or not
Dry eyes - could have a multitude of causes.

As I said, I’ve never tried anti-androgens (at least not yet) but I’ve read a lot about it and it really seems like there’s nothing out there as efficient as anti-androgens. So you have to decide whether you want to keep your hair and deal with the sides or get rid of the sides and meds but also of hair. It’s a hard trade you have to do and a difficult decision but it has to be yours and only yours.

Also, if you do a transplant for hairline and then quit finasteride what will most likely happen is you will continue to lose hair (depending on how extensive and aggressive is your hair loss) and you might end up with just the transplanted hairs around the hairline. That would give you a very unnatural look.


Regarding your blood work results… the values are a bit different than what I’m used to see (as in they use different unit measures). I am pretty sure there are other people here that have a better knowledge than me so I won’t comment on that too much. I do think that estradiol is a bit high (if the measure unit is pg/ml, it should be lower than 82 – some say even <55). High estradiol in men tends to lead to low libido, decreased morning erections, decreased erectile function, enlarged breasts (gyno) etc. Actually there is a plethora of adverse consequences stemming from hi estradiol in men.

I believe your prolactine high levels is what leads to your nipple discharge. Besides that, high prolactine leads (again) to decreased sex drive and difficulty getting an erection.

It seems that Cabergoline would be the safer and less (immediate) sides. The question is: do you want to repair the effects of one med by taking another med? And then that might lead to the need of taking another med and so on…


It is not strange for Testosterone to increase while on Finasteride. It is actually pretty common: Since Testosterone is not morphed into DHT anymore, you have more available testosterone.

Regarding the use of Carbegoline, here are two posts you may want to read through:


https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...to-deal-with-finasteride-side-effects.110821/

and

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/dont-use-cabergoline.25169/

I would not go on more meds without a doctor’s advice or supervision. Whatever you choose to do, good luck!

Also you may wanna look over this post. This guy says he is getting really good result with only .25 mg twice a week:

https://www.baldtruthtaIk.com/threads/12698-My-Finasteride-Story-so-far...

 

[memoryboy]

Hey Manochoice! Thanks a lot for your insights and answers!

I'm from a tiny country in Europe. The whole country has just population of a little over one million.

I researched the pharmaceuticals informations and found out just under 100 prescriptions for 1mg finasteride is given out aprox.

Have you had an increase in side effects after or while quitting for those few months?

I didn't really have any increase or decrease of side effects or "side effects" when I quit for a few months, as far as I could feel.

Very poor fertility – did you get a spermogram? How do you know of the poor fertility?

Yes I got a spermogram and yes, the fertility was very poor. At one point I was almost infertile but I also had prostatitis 2 years ago. I treated it and it's gone now. Fertility has slightly got better but it's still very bad. Not that I want children right now anyway but....

Low amount of semen, often watery (definitely identified as a finasteride side)
This doesn't really bother me.

Really long refractory period after orgasm (this bothers me a lot) – what do you mean by that? How long?
I mean the period after you can have or want intercourse again after you have orgasmed/ejaculated. I mean several hours. I can never go twice in a row.

Libido could be better – what do you mean could be better? Is it bothersome at this time? Did it improve while off finasteride?
I think this goes ups and down and could be related to other things in my life. I sometimes have very good libido on finasteride. Didn't see difference being off finasteride.

Erections could be better (I often use Cialis but I know I'm also too much of a perfectionist) – I am the same age as you, never used anti androgens and never had this issue so don’t blame your age for this.
Yeah, this could be related. I do have morning erections on finasteride. When I didn't have them I corrected some other things in my life and they came back. But I just sometimes use Cialis for erection quality. I do get decent erections without too though.

Weird crouch pain- again, reported often as a finasteride side
I've had bad back and discs for a long time, so some doctors think it's because of that but they really haven't figured out a source. Some physio thought it's a muscle and nerve memory pain as I've had back pain for so many years. Yeah, I've also read anecdotal stories about this in relation to finasteride.

I sweat super easily and a lot. Annoyingly so.- this could happen due to hormonal changes whether you or on anti-androgens or not
yeah, I guess so.

Dry eyes - could have a multitude of causes.
I've read this could be related to lack of DHT but this is totally anecdotal.

Yeah, it's a hard trade off. Especially as I have a full head of hair right now and going totally bald in a matter of months seems fucked up. I never had short hair even.

I tried Minoxidil for 6 months but it fucked up my hairline instead of helping.

I have been considering shaving my hair while on finasteride to see how it seems and how I cope with this. So if it's really bad, I could still grow it back. Too bad I fucked up my hairline though.

Yeah, I totally know that when I would do transplant to my hairline, I would need to continue finasteride forever or hope for some better treatment to come out.

Been thinking to try out topical finasteride but reading the reports haven't seen much success. Any thoughts?

I tried to post my story (way shorter) and blood work to bodybuilding.com forum but in some reasons my thread got deleted every time In whatever sub-forum I posted, I tried to find the right sub-forum. Anyone know a good place to get feedback from bodybuilders? As these guys know the drill about hormones and blood work.

Yeah, estradiol might be bit high, not sure. Really stupid that I don't have baseline values.
Prolactin was super high the last time I measured. In mid-range (but maybe still high?) some time ago.
I'm thinking to have another blood work done to see.

I'm thinking to try Dostinex (Cabergoline) to see if my side effects go away. If they really do go away and I would feel much better, I know they are from finasteride. I would consider quitting finasteride, as that kind of shows my side effects are from messing with my DHT.

I've understood though that Dostinex (Cabergoline) is to counter Prolactine and Tamoxifen (Nolvadex )is to counter estradiol?

I've read that it's OK for testosterone to rise on finasteride about 20% or drop 20% when to come off finasteride. But my testosterone changed around 50%. That seemed like a lot.

I've already fucked my hairline with minoxidil, so it's not in really good shape. Or maybe I fucked it up in having that break in finasteride or that period when I took less than 1mg for some time. I seem to have agressive balding in the front. No balding in the crown still.
But so going to 0,25mg finasteride seems that I might loose even more from hairline. If I loose any more, I might have to shave it off anyway.

I'm thinking to try some Dostinex (Cabergoline) just to see. But haven't found a place that sells it without prescription that's not totally shady. Anyone knows anything?

 

[memoryboy]

After search the internet to pieces, I haven't found a place where to get caber / dostinex online without prescription. a place that is not totally shady that is.
any suggestions?

 

[abcdefg]

I dont see why someone on finasteride for 10+ years with great results would ever stop. Why? Your just throwing away all the results from those 10 years for no reason. None of those things could even be related to the finasteride. As you age 10 years things do change naturally quite a lot. What evidence of all the terrible things it can do you? Most of it like neurosteroids is still kind of alleged it still lacks a lot of proof the significance of what it means. There is not a lot of major evidence proving negatives with finasteride. A few possible things that MIGHT happen to a minority, but its not black and white
if it aint broke dont fix it. If you start finasteride then be ready to keep at it forever. Once you stop anything can happen and restarting might not fix it.

 

[Ollie]

@memoryboy Did you ever try Cabergoline ?

 

[memoryboy]

@Ollie, I've been wanting to try it but I haven't found a doctor willing to write me a prescription

 

[Ollie]

@Ollie, I've been wanting to try it but I haven't found a doctor willing to write me a prescription

I've been wanting to try it myself because finasteride causes my prolactin to go sky high. However im not sure if cabergoline can actually make hairloss worse... so im skeptical. I think its pretty easy to get a hold of however because its heavily used in the bodybuilding community.

 

[memoryboy]

Thanks for your reply @Ollie

Well, I looked quite extensively online but didn't find many places to sell without prescription that weren't totally shady.

One place I found was https://www.unitedpharmacies.md

But I'm afraid to order from it as it has some really bad reviews and is accused to be a fraud.

any other suggestion?