I'm looking to use these 2 products. I was wondering, if I have diffuse thinning on top and the temples are receeding, if 5% monoixdil and azlaic acid would be good at maintaining my hair loss. I read that azelaic acid inhibits 90% of DHT on the scalp. Is this true and has anyone here been using it or thought about using it?
Generic Minoxidil and Azelaic Acid
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Bismarck
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Is used minoxidil with azelaic acid. When I applied it first time I knowed how the poor people in vietnam felt after a napalm attack.
I would first try minoxidil 5% and see what happens. You can still add other medications if it doesn't help. I'm also sceptical since 90% DHT inhibition would be much more than propecia is able to.
I would first try minoxidil 5% and see what happens. You can still add other medications if it doesn't help. I'm also sceptical since 90% DHT inhibition would be much more than propecia is able to.
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I am no pro but I saw a dermatologist a week ago and he told me that azlaic acid was an old cure and really would not do anything to help me keep my hair. :freaked2:
Topical azelaic acid has been found to be quite effective at reducing DHT on the scalp. I'll post some good, solid studies showing this. Studies are just that, however, and the only way to really know is to try it for yourself. In combination with 5% minoxidil, and used 2x/day, it's quite a potent hair-keeping solution. Add in 2% Nizoral shampoo eod, and perhaps 5% topical spironolactone cream, and you have four of the most powerful, proven hair-keeping products available, with little or no systemic side effects.
Here are some websites that sell some of the above-mentioned products:
www. minoxidil.com (Dr. Lee's comprehensive site)
www. wholesalehairproducts.com (sell a 5% minoxidil/az acid solution as well as topical spironolactone)
www. crinagen.com (Crinagen contains 5% azelaic acid)
Here are some websites that sell some of the above-mentioned products:
www. minoxidil.com (Dr. Lee's comprehensive site)
www. wholesalehairproducts.com (sell a 5% minoxidil/az acid solution as well as topical spironolactone)
www. crinagen.com (Crinagen contains 5% azelaic acid)
Here's one:
Azelaic Acid
The amount of azelaic acid is sufficient to give the maximum amount of suppression of 5-alpha reductase Type I.
Azelaic acid (pronounced az-uh-LAY-ic) is a simple molecule ( HOOC(CH2)7COOH, CAS Number 123-99-9, also known as 1,9-Nonanedioic acid) that is found in some whole grains and in trace amounts in human bodies. Although it is an acid, it is an extremely weak acid - much weaker than vinegar. Its current use in medicine is in Azelex, which is a cream base containing azelaic acid as 20% of its weight. Azelex is available by prescription in the USA and is used in the treatment of acne.
Azelaic acid may be useful as a hair growth stimulant. A research report by Stamatiadis in 1988 suggested that azelaic acid (and combinations of it and zinc ion and vitamin B6) was a strong type I 5-alpha reductase (5-AR) inhibitor. The enzyme 5-AR (both types I and II) converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT has been shown to contribute to male prostate enlargement (benign prostatic hyperplasia, BPH) and to damage hair follicles.
Abstract of Stamatiadis' 1988 study:
Br J Dermatol 1988 Nov;119(5):627-632 Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid. Stamatiadis D, Bulteau-Portois MC, Mowszowicz Laboratoire de Biochimie B, Hopital Necker-Enfants-Malades, Paris, France.
The effects of zinc sulphate and azelaic acid on 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin were studied using an in vitro assay with 1,2[3H]-testosterone as substrate. When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations that had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activities was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.
PMID: 3207614, UI: 89087983
Written by Dr. Nasser Razack M.D. (USA)
All Formulas developed by Dr. Nasser Razack M.D. (USA)
Azelaic Acid
The amount of azelaic acid is sufficient to give the maximum amount of suppression of 5-alpha reductase Type I.
Azelaic acid (pronounced az-uh-LAY-ic) is a simple molecule ( HOOC(CH2)7COOH, CAS Number 123-99-9, also known as 1,9-Nonanedioic acid) that is found in some whole grains and in trace amounts in human bodies. Although it is an acid, it is an extremely weak acid - much weaker than vinegar. Its current use in medicine is in Azelex, which is a cream base containing azelaic acid as 20% of its weight. Azelex is available by prescription in the USA and is used in the treatment of acne.
Azelaic acid may be useful as a hair growth stimulant. A research report by Stamatiadis in 1988 suggested that azelaic acid (and combinations of it and zinc ion and vitamin B6) was a strong type I 5-alpha reductase (5-AR) inhibitor. The enzyme 5-AR (both types I and II) converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT has been shown to contribute to male prostate enlargement (benign prostatic hyperplasia, BPH) and to damage hair follicles.
Abstract of Stamatiadis' 1988 study:
Br J Dermatol 1988 Nov;119(5):627-632 Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid. Stamatiadis D, Bulteau-Portois MC, Mowszowicz Laboratoire de Biochimie B, Hopital Necker-Enfants-Malades, Paris, France.
The effects of zinc sulphate and azelaic acid on 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin were studied using an in vitro assay with 1,2[3H]-testosterone as substrate. When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations that had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activities was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.
PMID: 3207614, UI: 89087983
Written by Dr. Nasser Razack M.D. (USA)
All Formulas developed by Dr. Nasser Razack M.D. (USA)
G
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touché!
G
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er....touché!
G
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bryan
you often pop up here with your "in vitro, not in vivo" side show
can you explain what this means to the (balding) layman.
cheers
Ty
you often pop up here with your "in vitro, not in vivo" side show
can you explain what this means to the (balding) layman.
cheers
Ty
TortoiseAndHair
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¡Viva México!
JJ Gittes
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Bryan said:
OK, this drives me crazy. Clearly, azelaic acid is used by quite a few pharmacologists as an additive to minoxidil. Why is this is?
Are there any in vivo studies demonstrating non-efficacy of azelaic acid in the treatment of male pattern baldness? Or, is the popularity of azelaic acid just a big scam based on the dubious success of in vitro studies?
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tynanW said:
It's simple: in vitro basically means within a test tube, while in vivo means within a living organism. For example, the Stamatiadis study referenced above took foreskins from circumsized human infants, minced them up finely, then added azelaic acid and testosterone to them and let them incubate for a few hours in a test tube. Then the DHT levels were measured afterwards. See what I mean? All that testing happened within glassware in a laboratory. It didn't happen within a living human or animal.
In contrast, there was a different test, an in vivo one, which showed that the fatty acid GLA (gamma-linolenic acid) inhibits 5a-reductse. The scientists dissolved GLA in alcohol and applied a drop of it everyday to the flank-organs of some hamsters. After a few days, the flank-organs were reduced in size, showing an antiandrogenic effect. That test was done on living creatures, so it's called in vivo.
Bryan
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JJ Gittes said:
I'm not so sure about that...IS it used by "quite a few" other people or companies?? I've seen a mention of it from maybe one or two other sources, but that's about it. And I think that's clearly just because azelaic acid has been somewhat popularized by Dr. Lee, and certainly not because of any proven utility for balding.
JJ Gittes said:
Hey, I'm glad you asked that question!
Yes, in my opinion, there is some pretty convincing NEGATIVE evidence for azelaic acid, although it's somewhat indirect: topical azelaic acid has been shown in both humans and animals (rodents like rats and mice) not to have any effect on sebum production. If azelaic acid really _were_ capable of reducing DHT, an obvious thing to be expected from that is a major reduction of sebum. Since that doesn't occur at all, it appears extremely unlikely that azelaic acid works in vivo the way Dr. Lee claims.JJ Gittes said:
I think that's exactly it.
Bryan
