Great dilemma

[absmon]

I posted this about two months ago but re-posting because I would like everyone's opinion. I have been on minoxidil 5% for 8 months now and making great progress. I also use nizarol 2% 3 times a week. I almost have a full head of hair because the temples are pretty much filled in and the hair is very thick. However, I have yet to add DHT inhibtor to my regimen. I thought about ordering spironolactone 2% but refrained because I am making great progress anyway and scared I might spoil all the progress that I have made.

Do you guys think the nizarol 2% is a strong enough DHT inhibitor to render spironolactone insufficient or, should I hop on the spironolactone bandwagon. I say this because some of you here say minoxidil alone is not enough and encourage the use of DHT inhibitor. I would appreciate your views. Thanks.

 

[wheyface33]

Well...nizoral isn't a dht inhibitor at all. Its an anti-inflammatory shampoo that many suggest using in combo with your routines because it helps to keep the scalp healthy and seems to have a synergetic effect with minoxidil/finasteride.

Secondly, spironolactone is also not a DHT inhibitor, its an anti-androgen. What it does is stop DHT from binding with the androgen receptor. A DHT inhibitor stops the first chemical reaction that causes hair loss from happening while anti-androgens stop later chemical reactions in the process from happening.

The most resilient DHT inhibitors seem to be finasteride and dutasteride.

I myself am on finasteride, which I am having good results with so far. finasteride of course includes propecia, proscar, etc.

Hope this helps!

 

[asolof]

Well...nizoral isn't a dht inhibitor at all. Its an anti-inflammatory shampoo that many suggest using in combo with your routines because it helps to keep the scalp healthy and seems to have a synergetic effect with minoxidil/finasteride.

Secondly, spironolactone is also not a DHT inhibitor, its an anti-androgen. What it does is stop DHT from binding with the androgen receptor. A DHT inhibitor stops the first chemical reaction that causes hair loss from happening while anti-androgens stop later chemical reactions in the process from happening.

The most resilient DHT inhibitors seem to be finasteride and dutasteride.

I myself am on finasteride, which I am having good results with so far. finasteride of course includes propecia, proscar, etc.

Hope this helps!

Hope this helps:

Ketocazole as an adjunct to finasteride in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia in men [In Process Citation]
Med Hypotheses 2004 Jan;62(1):112-5 (ISSN: 0306-9877)
Hugo Perez BS
California College of Podiatric Medicine, 371 Columbus Avenue, 94133, San Francisco, CA, USA.
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) binding to androgen receptors (AR) in hair follicles is commonly accepted as the first step leading to the miniaturizing of follicles associated with androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia). Testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5alpha-reductase. Finasateride a 5alpha-reducase inhibitor blocks the production of DHT and is currently used to treat Androgenetic Alopecia. The inhibition is not complete but a reduction of DHT systemically and in the scalp is accomplished. Ketoconazole has been clinically shown to be effective in the treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia. In this paper, evidence is presented to support the hypothesis that ketoconazole 2% shampoo has a local disruption of the DHT pathway. It is proposed that using ketoconazole 2% shampoo as an adjunct to finasteride treatment could lead to a more complete inhibition of DHT and thus better treat Androgenetic Alopecia

 

[absmon]

I have decided that I will never use finesteride due to the complications i.e. gyno. I guess, I will have to place an order for spironolactone 2% and hope and pray that it will not disrupt the progress I have made on minoxidil and nizarol (also gsm, which I forgot to mention in the earlier post).

 

[absmon]

BTW, will an application of .6-.7ml (a bit less than the recommended 1ml) of spironolactone 2% once a day be enough? I know they recommend 1ml twice a day.

 

[Bryan]

However, I have yet to add DHT inhibtor to my regimen.

What do you mean by a "DHT inhibitor"?

Bryan

 

[wheyface33]

Well...nizoral isn't a dht inhibitor at all. Its an anti-inflammatory shampoo that many suggest using in combo with your routines because it helps to keep the scalp healthy and seems to have a synergetic effect with minoxidil/finasteride.

Secondly, spironolactone is also not a DHT inhibitor, its an anti-androgen. What it does is stop DHT from binding with the androgen receptor. A DHT inhibitor stops the first chemical reaction that causes hair loss from happening while anti-androgens stop later chemical reactions in the process from happening.

The most resilient DHT inhibitors seem to be finasteride and dutasteride.

I myself am on finasteride, which I am having good results with so far. finasteride of course includes propecia, proscar, etc.

Hope this helps!

Hope this helps:

Ketocazole as an adjunct to finasteride in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia in men [In Process Citation]
Med Hypotheses 2004 Jan;62(1):112-5 (ISSN: 0306-9877)
Hugo Perez BS
California College of Podiatric Medicine, 371 Columbus Avenue, 94133, San Francisco, CA, USA.
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) binding to androgen receptors (AR) in hair follicles is commonly accepted as the first step leading to the miniaturizing of follicles associated with androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia). Testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5alpha-reductase. Finasateride a 5alpha-reducase inhibitor blocks the production of DHT and is currently used to treat Androgenetic Alopecia. The inhibition is not complete but a reduction of DHT systemically and in the scalp is accomplished. Ketoconazole has been clinically shown to be effective in the treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia. In this paper, evidence is presented to support the hypothesis that ketoconazole 2% shampoo has a local disruption of the DHT pathway. It is proposed that using ketoconazole 2% shampoo as an adjunct to finasteride treatment could lead to a more complete inhibition of DHT and thus better treat Androgenetic Alopecia

Yah I just saw that too. Even though its still a hypothesis and not a conclusive study (notice it just says "evidence is presented to support the hypothesis"), I may very well stand corrected. Hell I'd love to stand corrected...if nizoral is that effective then thats something we should all be excited about. It sounds promising.

 

[youngguy_uk]

GET ON finasteride!!! most people see no complications with it. its the best hairloss treatment around as it attacks hairloss from the core cause of it. minoxidil just provides an offset of growth separate from the balding process. if u want your hairloss to stop, take finasteride. the chances ull develop gyno are low, finasteride is so easy to take too, just pop a little pill every morning. and its effective.

 

[Guest]

However, I have yet to add DHT inhibtor to my regimen.

What do you mean by a "DHT inhibitor"?

Bryan

I would guess a "DHT inhibitor" would be something that fully or partially blocks the formation of DHT in the body?

 

[Molecular Help]

Yeah is that some kind of trick response by Bryan? I thought that guy was the most informed poster on here.

 

[absmon]

Youngguy_UK wrote: GET ON finasteride!!! most people see no complications with it. its the best hairloss treatment around as it attacks hairloss from the core cause of it. minoxidil just provides an offset of growth separate from the balding process. if u want your hairloss to stop, take finasteride. the chances ull develop gyno are low, finasteride is so easy to take too, just pop a little pill every morning. and its effective.

Wouldn't spironolactone 2% do the same?

 

[youngguy_uk]

yeh spironolactone has dht blocking properties, but finasteride should be central to any hairloss regimen. its the only fully proven treatment in taking big steps in maintaining your hair!! thats a fact. the data is all there.

 

[kiwi1973]

I posted this about two months ago but re-posting because I would like everyone's opinion. I have been on minoxidil 5% for 8 months now and making great progress. I also use nizarol 2% 3 times a week. I almost have a full head of hair because the temples are pretty much filled in and the hair is very thick. However, I have yet to add DHT inhibtor to my regimen. I thought about ordering spironolactone 2% but refrained because I am making great progress anyway and scared I might spoil all the progress that I have made.

Do you guys think the nizarol 2% is a strong enough DHT inhibitor to render spironolactone insufficient or, should I hop on the spironolactone bandwagon. I say this because some of you here say minoxidil alone is not enough and encourage the use of DHT inhibitor. I would appreciate your views. Thanks.

if it is not broken dont fix it.

if your having great susscess with minoxidil, thats great i would leave it at that for now
and when the growth levels out or if you start to loss more then think about adding spironolactone or finasteride

 

[Bryan]

However, I have yet to add DHT inhibtor to my regimen.

What do you mean by a "DHT inhibitor"?

Bryan

I would guess a "DHT inhibitor" would be something that fully or partially blocks the formation of DHT in the body?

So you're saying that "absmon" probably misused the term? After all, he _did_ use it in the context of spironolactone and Nizoral, which suggests that he was referring to androgen receptor blockers, not 5a-reductase inhibitors.

Yeah is that some kind of trick response by Bryan?

Mainly, it was a request for clarification. People continue to use the vague and ambiguous expression "DHT inhibitor", despite my efforts to get them to use more precise terminology. If you mean something like spironolactone, flutamide, or RU58841, then you should say "androgen receptor blocker" or simply "antiandrogen". If you mean something like finasteride or dutasteride, then you should say "5a-reductase inhibitor". "DHT inhibitor" is an ambiguous term made-up by people on hairloss sites, and should be avoided. Doctors and scientists never say that.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

Bryan you are right, but most people coming here are not endocrinologists, they only want to know that finasteride is stopping DHT being made inside their body, they don't really care that it is infact it's precursor that is being inhibited,

when someone excitedly posts an article on topical meletonin or some new vinager and onion antiandrogen a reply of 'In vitro' or whatever does nothing to guide them through the maze of hair loss treatments.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan you are right, but most people coming here are not endocrinologists, they only want to know that finasteride is stopping DHT being made inside their body, they don't really care that it is infact it's precursor that is being inhibited

In my humble opinion, if you're concerned enough about your hairloss that you come to dedicated sites and read hundreds of posts on the topic and discuss it with lots of other people, then one of the FIRST things you should do is learn the basic theory, including the distinction between androgen receptor blockers (or simply antiandrogens) and 5a-reductase inhibitors. It's really not that difficult to understand.

when someone excitedly posts an article on topical meletonin or some new vinager and onion antiandrogen a reply of 'In vitro' or whatever does nothing to guide them through the maze of hair loss treatments.

I don't understand what you mean.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

In my humble opinion,

get off your knees man have some pride.

if you're concerned enough about your hairloss that you come to dedicated sites and read hundreds of posts on the topic and discuss it with lots of other people, then one of the FIRST things you should do is learn the basic theory, including the distinction between androgen receptor blockers (or simply antiandrogens) and 5a-reductase inhibitors. It's really not that difficult to understand.

For the vast majority of visitors to any hairloss forum I expect one of the FIRST things you should do is find out what works to stop hairloss and promote hairgrowth, I would bet most people who read these forums don't even post let alone discuss the difference between a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor and antiandrogen receptor sites, they just want to know how much Nizoral they should be drinking.

I appreciate what you are saying, but a rhetorical "What do you mean by a "DHT inhibitor"?" post does little to forward the sum knowledge on this forum, it just shows the poster that you know an awful lot more than them.

 

[Bryan]

if you're concerned enough about your hairloss that you come to dedicated sites and read hundreds of posts on the topic and discuss it with lots of other people, then one of the FIRST things you should do is learn the basic theory, including the distinction between androgen receptor blockers (or simply antiandrogens) and 5a-reductase inhibitors. It's really not that difficult to understand.

For the vast majority of visitors to any hairloss forum I expect one of the FIRST things you should do is find out what works to stop hairloss and promote hairgrowth, I would bet most people who read these forums don't even post let alone discuss the difference between a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor and antiandrogen receptor sites, they just want to know how much Nizoral they should be drinking.

I agree with you on that, and I should have worded it a little better than I did. So here's my correction: BY THE TIME somebody has read hundreds of posts on hairloss forums and discussed this stuff with lots of other people, they ought to know the difference between a 5a-reductase inhibitor and an androgen receptor blocker. By that time, they should be avoiding sloppy language like "DHT inhibitor".

I appreciate what you are saying, but a rhetorical "What do you mean by a "DHT inhibitor"?" post does little to forward the sum knowledge on this forum, it just shows the poster that you know an awful lot more than them.

There are varying degrees of rhetoric, and I'll admit that in this particular case, it was PARTIALLY rhetorical, but definitely not COMPLETELY rhetorical. I was genuinely puzzled to see him use that term along with talk about spironolactone and Nizoral. Of course, that only supports my thesis that the term can mean anything at all, depending on who's using it at the time.

Bryan

 

[Molecular Help]

I agree with Bryan, everyone should be more precise with the language on these issues since we're talking about some specialized medications here. I actually had read and understood the difference between a 5a-reductase inhibitor and anti-androgens, but they're more often reduced in terms of "blocking/inhibiting dht" and differentiated by whether they are topical or oral (and side effects!!!). I should know better from my reading but somehow it became muddled. Of course this forum is already great on info and accuracy, but we could make it perfect!