How real is PFS?

[mr.patches]

Somebody posted this on another forum http://www.pfsfoundation.org/news/c...-a-harvard-medical-school-teaching-affiliate/

And I'm thinking, ok this thing is legit and now we have people researching more and more on this stuff to offer a solution and whatnot.

What do you guys think? Is this common or uncommon? Anti Propecia strategy?

Just think for a moment, what if these dudes stopped investing on that nonsense and start working on a freakin' cure to male pattern baldness??!! Wouldn't that just solve the PFS problem?

It seems so easy to trash on finasteride, a drug that can even be considered a cure to good/great responders, and not offer at least an alternate Androgenetic Alopecia treatment free of sides.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

Another one of these threads!

These types of threads are causing more cases of PFS than finasteride actually is.

 

[Grammaton Cleric]

http://www.pfsfoundation.org/published-research/ :whistle:

 

[Notcoolanymore]

http://www.pfsfoundation.org/published-research/ :whistle:

Do you really have nothing else to contribute besides the usual anti finasteride garbage? Is your objective to actually help people that are suffering from hair loss or just to scare them away from treatment? You are pushing your anti finasteride message pretty hard. What is your story? Have you even taken finasteride or were you just scared away from treating your own hair loss and you want others to suffer like you have?

Before others fall into this guys trap just take a good look at who you are dealing with. I have dealt with these guys many times before on this site and others. Let me tell you these guys claim to want to expose the truth but then use deceptive tactics to spread their message including creating numerous accounts on various websites pretending to be many people who have suffered sides. If they were really here to help you not only would they be trying to inform you on the dangers of finasteride, but would be presenting you with other options: RU, topical finasteride, etc. The reality of the situation is that these guys are most likely pissed off lonely virgins that didn't treat their hair loss and want to put you in the same situation they are in. Think about the type of person that actually spends hours a day going around spreading anti finasteride nonsense.

This is a hair loss forum. Men(mostly) come here to learn about treatment options not to be frightened away with surveys disguised as studies. For all the guys that are worried about taking finasteride you need to stop falling for all of this BS. I would say if you are considering taking finasteride, then learn about potential sides and decide if it is worth the risk. If you don't want to take the risk then you need to accept that you will more than likely continue to go bald. If you do decide to take the risk then you need to accept the responsibility that you made the decision and live with the potential negative consequences. I understand the risks. I have seen the anti finasteride garbage for over a year and I decide to still take finasteride. If I get harmed by it I am prepared to accept that it was my decision to take the medication.

 

[Grammaton Cleric]

Do you really have nothing else to contribute besides the usual anti finasteride garbage? Is your objective to actually help people that are suffering from hair loss or just to scare them away from treatment? You are pushing your anti finasteride message pretty hard. What is your story? Have you even taken finasteride or were you just scared away from treating your own hair loss and you want others to suffer like you have?

Before others fall into this guys trap just take a good look at who you are dealing with. I have dealt with these guys many times before on this site and others. Let me tell you these guys claim to want to expose the truth but then use deceptive tactics to spread their message including creating numerous accounts on various websites pretending to be many people who have suffered sides. If they were really here to help you not only would they be trying to inform you on the dangers of finasteride, but would be presenting you with other options: RU, topical finasteride, etc. The reality of the situation is that these guys are most likely pissed off lonely virgins that didn't treat their hair loss and want to put you in the same situation they are in. Think about the type of person that actually spends hours a day going around spreading anti finasteride nonsense.

This is a hair loss forum. Men(mostly) come here to learn about treatment options not to be frightened away with surveys disguised as studies. For all the guys that are worried about taking finasteride you need to stop falling for all of this BS. I would say if you are considering taking finasteride, then learn about potential sides and decide if it is worth the risk. If you don't want to take the risk then you need to accept that you will more than likely continue to go bald. If you do decide to take the risk then you need to accept the responsibility that you made the decision and live with the potential negative consequences. I understand the risks. I have seen the anti finasteride garbage for over a year and I decide to still take finasteride. If I get harmed by it I am prepared to accept that it was my decision to take the medication.

Apparently you are a sexual health doctor so you know more than these in the video, am I right?
[video=youtube;w6rusBYVm60]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6rusBYVm60&feature=youtu.be&t=2m30s[/video]
You can't handle the truth

 

[mr.patches]

Another one of these threads!

These types of threads are causing more cases of PFS than finasteride actually is.

I may have been high when I started the thread but I'm sure that was not my intention. If anything, I'm questioning PFS and I wanted to see if I was just being paranoid, and I think I was unfortunately.

 

[BATTLETIME]

Do you really have nothing else to contribute besides the usual anti finasteride garbage? Is your objective to actually help people that are suffering from hair loss or just to scare them away from treatment? You are pushing your anti finasteride message pretty hard. What is your story? Have you even taken finasteride or were you just scared away from treating your own hair loss and you want others to suffer like you have?

Before others fall into this guys trap just take a good look at who you are dealing with. I have dealt with these guys many times before on this site and others. Let me tell you these guys claim to want to expose the truth but then use deceptive tactics to spread their message including creating numerous accounts on various websites pretending to be many people who have suffered sides. If they were really here to help you not only would they be trying to inform you on the dangers of finasteride, but would be presenting you with other options: RU, topical finasteride, etc. The reality of the situation is that these guys are most likely pissed off lonely virgins that didn't treat their hair loss and want to put you in the same situation they are in. Think about the type of person that actually spends hours a day going around spreading anti finasteride nonsense.

This is a hair loss forum. Men(mostly) come here to learn about treatment options not to be frightened away with surveys disguised as studies. For all the guys that are worried about taking finasteride you need to stop falling for all of this BS. I would say if you are considering taking finasteride, then learn about potential sides and decide if it is worth the risk. If you don't want to take the risk then you need to accept that you will more than likely continue to go bald. If you do decide to take the risk then you need to accept the responsibility that you made the decision and live with the potential negative consequences. I understand the risks. I have seen the anti finasteride garbage for over a year and I decide to still take finasteride. If I get harmed by it I am prepared to accept that it was my decision to take the medication.

This can also apply to those who have vested interests in a website that sells hairloss products & want to counteract those who have bad news relating to these products. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. This section deals with side effects. Go to a different area if your not adding anything here but putting up smokescreen. Let the rest discuss in peace here.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

Just like I said, these guys are not here to help you, they are just here to scare you and keep you from treating their hair loss. The dude totally avoided every question I had. Not that I needed him to answer any of them. I already know the answers. It is too easy to see right through these guys.

Listen to the facts and clinical data. Not the surveys of guys that claim yeah I was 100% healthy and a sex machine now I cant get it up. These PFS people are making all these claims. Time for them to provide some actual proof. Prove the guy was actually healthy and that these sides were not going to happen to him for other reasons. The same old this and that substance can change your bodies chemistry and possibly cause this and that. Well no sh!t. It's common sense. Many if not all prescription drugs do this and cause way worse sides including death. Are these guys going around the internet expressing their outrage about that? I think not, because ED is worse than death right.

Again, take responsibility for your actions. Yes finasteride can cause sides just like any other prescription drug can. If you decide to take it accept that you could possibly be in the group of guys that may suffer sides. If you cant do that or are too mentally weak(not talking crap, I myself have been there!) to deal with what might happen or end up giving yourself psychosomatic sides, then don't take finasteride and just accept that you will continue to lose your hair.

- - - Updated - - -

This can also apply to those who have vested interests in a website that sells hairloss products & want to counteract those who have bad news relating to these products. Let the rest discuss in peace here

Oh please. Yeah I work for Merck...

Just because this section deals with side effects doesn't mean it is okay to spread misinformation. The guy asked a question and I actually took the time to give him an answer. I didn't just provide the same tired link to some pfs site. There is no smokescreen here. I have said over and over that finasteride sides are real, but they are not real in everybody that reports them and the incidents of sides are way over exaggerated. Some of you guys do everything in your power to convince people that sides are guaranteed to happen for everybody that takes finasteride and that is just a bunch of nonsense. You know it and I know it. If you got sides from finasteride and have chosen to give up your hair loss battle then I'm sorry things didn't work out for you, but don't try to scare and screw over everybody else that wants to do something about their hair loss by filling their head with your "facts".

But yeah I will let you get back to your "discussion":

"finasteride give me permanent ED"
"Yeah me too"
"My libido has dropped by 32.7%"
"Oh and I got brain fog within 5 minutes of popping my first pill"
"Check this site out dude pfsnonsense.org"
"I don't care if you have been side free for 10 years. Sooner or later you will get sides"

Yeah great discussion. I don't want to get in the way of that.

 

[Grammaton Cleric]

https://endo.confex.com/endo/2014endo/webprogram/Paper11432.html

[h=2]Androgen Levels and Semen Parameters Among Former Users of Finasteride with Persistent Sexual Side Effects[/h]Program: Abstracts - Orals, Poster Preview Presentations, and Posters
Session: SUN 0046-0070-Hormone Measurements, Pharmacokinetics, Sexual Dysfunction, Genetic Andrology
Basic

Sunday, June 22, 2014: 1:00 PM-3:00 PM
Hall F (McCormick Place West Building)

Poster Board SUN-0051
Michael Scott Irwig, MD
George Washington University, Washington, DC

Background:Recent postmarketing studies have found that finasteride 1 mg for male pattern hair loss has been associated with persistent sexual and non-sexual side effects. Finasteride is also known to alter androgen levels and semen parameters in healthy younger men.Objective:To assess the serum levels of androgens (testosterone and dihydrotestosterone) and semen parameters in former users of finasteride who developed persistent sexual side effects.
Methods:Otherwise healthy former users of finasteride (n=24) with persistent sexual side effects for ≥3 months were administered standardized interviews. Subjects were asked to obtain two sets of morning androgen measurements (testosterone and dihydrotestosterone) and two semen analyses performed at least one month apart.
Results:The mean serum levels of total testosterone (542 ng/dL) and dihydrotestosterone (48 ng/dL) were similar to baseline androgen levels in other studies. Nonetheless, 3 out of 24 subjects (13%) had two confirmed low testosterone levels and 3 out of 23 subjects (13%) had two confirmed low dihydrotestosterone levels. As compared to a reference sample of unscreened men, the median semen volume (2.7 mL) and total motility (50%) were lower in our population. Three out of 19 subjects (16%) had severe oligospermia (< 5 million/mL) and 4 out of 9 (44%) had two low motility values.
Limitations:Retrospective study design, small sample size, recall bias


Conclusions: Although mean levels of androgens were similar to those in healthy men, a subset of men with persistent sexual side effects associated with finasteride had severe oligospermia and low levels of serum androgens. Further research is needed on additional subjects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24959691

[h=1]Immunohistochemical evaluation of androgen receptor and nerve structure density in human prepuce from patients with persistent sexual side effects after finasteride use for androgenetic alopecia.[/h]Di Loreto C1, La Marra F1, Mazzon G2, Belgrano E2, Trombetta C2, Cauci S1.
[h=3]Author information[/h]

[h=3]Abstract[/h]
Finasteride is an inhibitor of 5-α-reductase used against male androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia). Reported side effects of finasteride comprise sexual dysfunction including erectile dysfunction, male infertility, and loss of libido. Recently these effects were described as persistent in some subjects. Molecular events inducing persistent adverse sexual symptoms are unexplored. This study was designed as a retrospective case-control study to assess if androgen receptor (AR) and nerve density in foreskin prepuce specimens were associated with persistent sexual side effects including loss of sensitivity in the genital area due to former finasteride use against Androgenetic Alopecia. Cases were 8 males (aged 29-43 years) reporting sexual side effects including loss of penis sensitivity over 6 months after discontinuation of finasteride who were interviewed and clinically visited. After informed consent they were invited to undergo a small excision of skin from prepuce. Controls were 11 otherwise healthy matched men (aged 23-49 years) who undergone circumcision for phimosis, and who never took finasteride or analogues. Differences in AR expression and nerve density in different portions of dermal prepuce were evaluated in the 2 groups. Density of nuclear AR in stromal and epithelial cells was higher in cases (mean 40.0%, and 80.6% of positive cells, respectively) than controls (mean 23.4%, and 65.0% of positive cells, respectively), P = 0.023 and P = 0.043, respectively. Conversely, percentage of vessel smooth muscle cells positive for AR and density of nerves were similar in the 2 groups. The ratio of AR positive stromal cells % to serum testosterone concentrations was 2-fold higher in cases than in controls (P = 0.001). Our findings revealed that modulation of local AR levels might be implicated in long-term side effects of finasteride use. This provides the first evidence of a molecular objective difference between patients with long-term adverse sexual effects after finasteride use versus drug untreated healthy controls in certain tissues.

 

[BATTLETIME]

That's a nice bit of Hootin & hollering your doing there Notcoolanymore. I don't know people here as most don't & I'm not trying to screw anyone out of what regimen they chose. People need as much info as possible & im interested in everyones story.Did you get bloodwork done before you started taking finasteride? Your being unreasonable & aggressive & barely covering your arse with the "I know some people get sides etc etc" angle. If you believe that then dont try shove pills down lads throats. I'm wondering where you have been sent from as are others. This site needs pushers like any drug. Also don't toss out the "all drugs have side effects so what" line. Stick to the points on this drug. Next up from you will probably be the "You could get knocked down by a car but you don't go around worrying about that so why fret over taking finasteride" etc etc. KEEP ON TRACK HERE BOY & I WANT YOU TO ARGUE & DISPROVE THE RESEARCH IN THE ABOVE PREVIOUS POST LAIN AT YOUR FEET FOR CONSUMPTION. You will be finished in this particular thread when I & others decide to let you go. finasteride works for you? Fine. But you ain't speaking for another single soul.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

Your being unreasonable & aggressive & barely covering your arse with the "I know some people get sides etc etc" angle. If you believe that then dont try shove pills down lads throats. I'm wondering where you have been sent from as are others. This site needs pushers like any drug. Also don't toss out the "all drugs have side effects so what" line. You will be finished in this particular thread when I & others decide to let you go. finasteride works for you? Fine. But you ain't speaking for another single soul.

Like I said every drug has sides plain and simple. I am aware of them and if I get them I will be man enough to accept the role I played in making that happen. You should do the same.

As far as shoving pills down anybodies throat. When have I done that? That is just dumb.

Ok, I will be done with this thread when you decide to let me go. LOL. A weak person like you wouldn't be able to control anybody. Just because you are weak minded and let somebody the likes of Grammaton control your mind and give you ED doesn't mean we are all as gullible as you. I read your ED thread and you have been running around afraid of your own shadow for months. You are defeated and now you are pissed at people that have common sense and know how to dismiss guys like GC.

Please set me free from this thread!!! You own me!!!! LOL what a joke.

 

[BATTLETIME]

First up an apology to Notcoolanymore. I indicated you may have been a mole for Merckx or this site seeing as you hang round numerous sites battling guys who have a different opinion to you & your intent on dismissing research & support systems for the unfortunate. These plants are usually quite intelligent, respectable to others & mask themselves well & also offer insight & help to those suffering if even towing the party line. You are not one of these.
And now you add insulting those who actually went through sides as you bullhorn from your plinth about how nobody should pay any attention to any negative posts about finasteride or PFS. You simply don't have any class. Glad you read my story & refer to me as a loser. Did you finish it? If so you can see that I got a full recovery albeit with low Testosterone. I feel perfectly fine & like I did before, I'd just like a normal T level for peace of mind. Everything works like clockwork in the trousers department. I feel mentally fine. I just keep an eye on my T to monitor it & I post here so the log is updated for myself & to also offer hope for anybody perusing here who may be in bother. I believe it offers hope & is informative. My hair is also fine. I have enough for my age & Rogaine & Nizoral keep it ticking over for now.
I'm running scared? I'm being real. What are you doing giving advice without your requested bloodwork which IM STILL WAITING ON so you can backup your claims your fine despite regularly hanging round these sites apparently picking fights. I would put forth that maybe you are worried about something?
You have your hair for now but you won't when you stop finasteride if you chose to or have to (6 months should do it I believe it's quite dramatic hairloss, Mafia drug cos your in for life or not at all). But you won't ever have class around here not with your aggression & your disrespect for those who learned the hard way.
And let's end on positivity. My ordeal thought me a lesson, that there was actually more to life than a bit of hair. I'm glad of the hair I do have & ill be alright even if it goes 20 years from now or whatever.
Some of us here are just gonna put you in our pocket for now & will take you out when we want to make our mates laugh down the pub.
So who's the real loser in all of this now?
I told you we were keeping you here for a while.

 

[Grammaton Cleric]

Like I said every drug has sides plain and simple. I am aware of them and if I get them I will be man enough to accept the role I played in making that happen. You should do the same.

As far as shoving pills down anybodies throat. When have I done that? That is just dumb.

Ok, I will be done with this thread when you decide to let me go. LOL. A weak person like you wouldn't be able to control anybody. Just because you are weak minded and let somebody the likes of Grammaton control your mind and give you ED doesn't mean we are all as gullible as you. I read your ED thread and you have been running around afraid of your own shadow for months. You are defeated and now you are pissed at people that have common sense and know how to dismiss guys like GC.

Please set me free from this thread!!! You own me!!!! LOL what a joke.

What a low life you are calling someone suffering with side effects weak. Apparently my mind control had taken over the admins too http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...ost-Finasteride-Syndrome-Your-input-requested

 

[mr.patches]

What a low life you are calling someone suffering with side effects weak. Apparently my mind control had taken over the admins too http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...ost-Finasteride-Syndrome-Your-input-requested

Actually, the Admin's intention seems pretty honest and transparent so your comment does take away credibility to your claims. PFS is nothing more than a study, at least currently, and if something is proven is that some people are far more susceptible to sides than others and it requires a great amount of work to study each individual health background. It may be conclusive eventually, but I suspect it will limit itself as a small percentage of casualties who never studied their health conditions before starting treatment in the first place.