How to shrink the follicles' sebaceous glands?

[Hoppi]

I reckon this could be a killer. I mean at the moment, I am trying to reduce fungal activity, dandruff, remove dead skin cells, clear surface sebum, all that stuff, just to improve the conditions of my scalp. HOWEVER. Let's not forget the actual cause of all this junk..... sebum!

So like.. I'm wondering if lithium (orotate) (topically or orally) enough to actually SHRINK sebaceous glands? Because it does seem that they get swollen with possibly IGF-1-triggered sebum, maybe fat, and certainly DHT.

Oh my apparently accutane does it.. *shudders*

Apparently "vitamin A acid isotretinoin (13-cis retinic acid)" (WHATEVER that is..) does it too.


But yeah erm, does anybody know about this? If lithium does it then I'll give that a bash, but I think this would be a great (topical or systemic) move in controlling hair loss for pretty much anyone, as so many people say their hair loss coincided with a bout of sebum or dandruff.


Hoppi!

 

[Bryan]

But yeah erm, does anybody know about this? If lithium does it then I'll give that a bash, but I think this would be a great (topical or systemic) move in controlling hair loss for pretty much anyone, as so many people say their hair loss coincided with a bout of sebum or dandruff.

For all the reasons I've explained to you in previous threads, there is no serious rationale for believing that merely reducing sebum would have any effect on controlling hair loss. :shakehead:

 

[Hoppi]

Nevertheless, I am entitled to my opinion (and logic!)

 

[squeegee]

Bryan, What about the idea of the sebum getting trapped and oxidized which bacteria multiply and start the inflammation of the follicles?

 

[Bryan]

Bryan, What about the idea of the sebum getting trapped which bacteria multiply and start the inflammation of the follicles?

The only way I know of for sebum to get "trapped" is when a sebaceous cyst forms. As far as I know, the vast majority of us with male pattern baldness don't have sebaceous cysts in our scalps!

 

[CCS]

Bryan, What about the idea of the sebum getting trapped and oxidized which bacteria multiply and start the inflammation of the follicles?

You got pimples on your head? hairloss is the least of your worries.

 

[squeegee]

Bryan, What about the idea of the sebum getting trapped which bacteria multiply and start the inflammation of the follicles?

The only way I know of for sebum to get "trapped" is when a sebaceous cyst forms. As far as I know, the vast majority of us with male pattern baldness don't have sebaceous cysts in our scalps!

What about oxidized sebum???

 

[squeegee]

Bryan, What about the idea of the sebum getting trapped and oxidized which bacteria multiply and start the inflammation of the follicles?

You got pimples on your head? hairloss is the least of your worries.

LOL.. Not talking about acne...

 

[KeepTheHair]

The only things I know of are:

Ketoconazole, makes the sebum glands produce less sebum over time. Also, removes most current sebum from the scalp.

http://www.hairlosssucks.com/download/nizoral.pdf


Also, accutane etc, obviously stops sebum production quite a bit.




Thats all I know of.

 

[Hoppi]

Bryan, What about the idea of the sebum getting trapped and oxidized which bacteria multiply and start the inflammation of the follicles?

I think sebum certainly has the capability to make an already undesirable situation much, much worse. CS commented that although he doesn't believe eliminating the overproduction of sebum works 100% at stopping hair loss, it makes a significant difference.

The important thing to remember is that follicles DO seem to be able to take some DHT and testosterone, they don't just keel over at the first whiff of it!

However when you start increasing free radicals, sebum, clogging the scalp, introducing other factors that increase inflammation, and yeah probably things like bacteria too, THAT'S when things get messy up there! :shock:

 

[Bryan]

I think sebum certainly has the capability to make an already undesirable situation much, much worse. CS commented that although he doesn't believe eliminating the overproduction of sebum works 100% at stopping hair loss, it makes a significant difference.

That's all well and good for this far-out hypothesizing (that sebum contributes to male pattern baldness), but nobody has presented any actual arguments for why that would be the case, much less provided any scientific evidence for it.

The important thing to remember is that follicles DO seem to be able to take some DHT and testosterone, they don't just keel over at the first whiff of it!

HUH?? OF COURSE follicles make DHT!! As I've pointed out and argued for numerous times in the past, it's the DHT synthesized within hair follicles which is responsible for male pattern baldness, not DHT in the bloodstream! :smack:

 

[KeepTheHair]

It seems extremely viable that sebum is not a good thing for optimal hair growth. Though Bryan is right about the fact that there has yet to be some concrete evidence.

I still believe sebum to be one of the culprits though.

 

[Hoppi]

HUH?? OF COURSE follicles make DHT!! As I've pointed out and argued for numerous times in the past, it's the DHT synthesized within hair follicles which is responsible for male pattern baldness, not DHT in the bloodstream! :smack:

I'm afraid I don't agree, I think the systemic DHT makes more difference. Otherwise people like CS and that who are optimizing and lifting their T levels would be losing some hair. Testosterone isn't too bad I don't think unless you have way too much of it, at least in what I've seen and experienced.. but we may just have to agree to disagree as I'm afraid I have no studies or anything to back up what I'm saying

Another possible explanation is that the 5ar is upregulated by the lack of T, as that study I posted suggested. Either way, the point remains that testosterone is not the enemy

 

[Bryan]

HUH?? OF COURSE follicles make DHT!! As I've pointed out and argued for numerous times in the past, it's the DHT synthesized within hair follicles which is responsible for male pattern baldness, not DHT in the bloodstream! :smack:

I'm afraid I don't agree, I think the systemic DHT makes more difference. Otherwise people like CS and that who are optimizing and lifting their T levels would be losing some hair.

I don't understand the argument you're attempting to make here. Please explain your point in more detail.

The argument that _I_ have always used to show that systemic DHT has no significant effect on hair follicles is this one: experiments have shown that the topical application of 5a-reductase inhibitors (ones that have a local effect only) are able to suppress sebaceous glands ONLY where they are applied. If that clearly happens with sebaceous glands, wouldn't you expect the same thing to happen with hair follicles?

By the way, Dr. Proctor has said for years on alt.baldspot that the standard view of endocrinologists is that DHT only has an effect in the tissues where it's actually produced; in other words, DHT isn't an endocrine hormone, it's an autocrine or paracrine hormone.

Another possible explanation is that the 5ar is upregulated by the lack of T, as that study I posted suggested.

I already told you about the study that found that the 5a-reductase type II in human hair follicles is DOWNREGULATED by the lack of T, not upregulated.

 

[Hoppi]

CS is cool man, and misterE was too I wonder what he's up to! Probably drinking green tea and preparing a rice-based vegan meal as we speak ^_^