I found the Spearmint and Lavender we want!

[CCS]

Thank You Micheal Barry for posting this, which gave me a jump start on some new information for you:

...
I just pulled some sebutape strips off my forehead, hoping to see big fluridil result. ...This is a dissapointing result.

Just about everything Ive tried with the sebutape has worked "a little", but nothing has really made a big difference in the amount of sebum secreted ...

[have not yet sebutape tested pure EGCG or peppermint]

...

Believe it or not there is a hairloss patent for the usage of limonene as an alpha-five reductase inhibitor. There is another patent for the extraction of perillyl alcohol from limonene. Perillyl alcohol has been shown to degrade androgen receptors.

Limonene is presnet (in varying quantities) in several of the old essential oils that you see mentioned in "old" hairloss remedies like rosemary, lavender, sage, etc. Its also in orange and lemon oil and a few others. Ive seen limonene in L'Oreal Thickening shampoo, Alpecin shampoo, Garnier Fructis Fortifying shampoo and one other shampoo whose name I cant recall. It makes you wonder.

(Peppermint, and menthol, are in a lot of hairloss shampoos)
The "menthol" content of peppermint is extremely high. Spearmint has less than 1% menthol, but still has limonene. Spearmint was in one hairloss shampoo out of England a while back that was sold at Lipoxidil.

... (the side of his beard he used peppermint essential oil on still is not as thick as the other side, after 2 years, making him wonder if it is more than an anti-androgen, but actually kills hairs).

There are two types of Limonene, d, and L. D-limonene is in citrus fruit peals, and is cheap and smells like citrus. According to this site it is also very unhealthy.
http://lookingglasssurgery.com/skincare.htm
But other sites say the d-limonene is the anti-androgen. Synthetic limonene occurs as a mixture of the two, and is expensive to separate; the d-limonene outweighs any benefits you'd get from the l-limonene, even though they call the mixture l-limonene. L-limonene is found in many spice plants of the mint family, such as lavender, peppermint, and spearmint. Spearmint has the most by far, and Mentha spicata oil is 35% l-limonene
http://www.springerlink.com/content/gaj478uyrnbnwcr2/

You can buy it anywhere, but it is here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G7 ... 1BCRG0NPS0


As for the Perillyl alcohol, it is so effective at fighting androgenic cancers as an androgen receptor degrader that it is by prescription only. They distill it from English Lavender, which has the highest content of the stuff of all lavenders.
get 2 ounces for $23.00 here:
http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/english_lavender_eo.html
I found a component chart, and Perillyl alcohol was not a big factor listed. I'm tempted to just stick to the EGCG.

I read that one of them oxidizes the other, but not sure if it was d-limonene doing that, so it might not be good to store them in the same container.

The other warning people is that these oils do get absorbed into the blood stream and can cause gyno just like finasteride can. If you are predisposed to hormonal problems, you might get problems from this two. MB found that drinking spearmint tea has a systemic anti-androgenic effect.

MB suggests that as a topical you need at most 1/40 mix. I suggest using everclear and distilled water so you can dissolve these and EGCG in the same topical, and maybe add a drop of some acid to stabilize the EGCG.

I don't get side effects, and want to use it as a topical addition to my regimen.

 

[CCS]

EGCG is a big component of green tea, and can be purchased cheap in health food stores at 98%.

Im copying this study Michael Barry posted on another site:
Via pubmed:

1: Phytomedicine. 2007 Aug;14(7-8):551-5. Epub 2006 Nov 7. Links
Human hair growth enhancement in vitro by green tea epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG).Kwon OS, Han JH, Yoo HG, Chung JH, Cho KH, Eun HC, Kim KH.
Department of Dermatology, Seoul National University College of Medicine, Laboratory of Cutaneous Aging and Hair Research, Seoul National University Hospital, Institute of Dermatological Science, Seoul National University, 110-744 Seoul, Republic of Korea.

...
Recently, it was reported that EGCG might be useful in the prevention or treatment of androgenetic alopecia by selectively inhibiting 5alpha-reductase activity. However, no report has been issued to date on the effect of EGCG on human hair growth. This study was undertaken to measure the effect of EGCG on hair growth in vitro and to investigate its effect on human dermal papilla cells (DPCs) in vivo and in vitro. EGCG promoted hair growth in hair follicles ex vivo culture and the proliferation of cultured DPCs. The growth stimulation of DPCs by EGCG in vitro may be mediated through the upregulations of phosphorylated Erk and Akt and by an increase in the ratio of Bcl-2/Bax ratio. Similar results were also obtained in in vivo dermal papillae of human scalps. Thus, we suggest that EGCG stimulates human hair growth through these dual proliferative and anti-apoptotic effects on DPCs.

PMID: 17092697 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

Bryan previously posted a study showing EGCG to be a potent 5ar1 inhibitor and androgen receptor blocker in sebum cells. It prevented sebum increase even in the presence of DHT!

It was so effective against MB's body hair that he worried it was epiliatory, especially since it is known to prevent angiogenesis in cancer cells. For a long time we were afraid to use it on our heads. Now this study shows it is perfectly safe and good, and works by other mechanisms too.

 

[CCS]

Genistein and Daidzein do not go systemic, and were found in a human scalp hair study to regrow a lot of hair, possibly throw a local estrogenic mechanism. They are found in soy protein suplements at health food stores if you shop around, but 3% purity. I don't even know what they dissolve in or what the other ingredients dissolve in. It would be nice if they could be extracted with alcohol.
http://www.stophairlossnow.co.uk/Soy_Extract.htm
It says the mixture increased hair growth by 30%. Each does something different.

Soy Study

French researchers compared the effects of a soyextract vs. genistein and daidzein (isoflavones devoid of their carbohydrate conjugates) and daidzin and puerarin (carbohydrate conjugated isoflavones; puerarin is present in abundance within kudzu [Pueraria lobata]) on different hormone elements and isolated human hair follicles.
'Activation' of the gene coding for an enzyme implicated in androgenetic hair loss (5alpha-reductase; the target of the drug finasteride, for androgenetic alopecia) was inhibited by both genistein and puerarin. Genetic activation of an enzyme involved in the conversion of testosterone into estrogens (aromatase) was increased by genistein and, to a lesser extent, daidzein.

The soy extract stimulated one of the estrogen receptors (b receptor) greater than genistein and daidzein, although the latter two were stimulatory themselves. Receptors for testosterone-like molecules (androgens) were decreased by genistein, and half as much by daidzein.

But what does all this molecular hormone 'geek speak' mean? The researchers found a 30 per cent increase in hair growth with the soy extract. Woven together, these data suggest that an isoflavone mixture, perhaps ideally from soy (but yet to be confirmed) could arrest hair loss in conditions where androgens are playing an operative role.

Then there is Nizoral shampoo of course. And Piroctone Olamine which is available as bodyshop ginger on Amazon for pretty cheap.

Minoxidil, though it is very greasy and reacts with spironolactone.
There is spironolactone, though it is expensive.
Revivogen, though expensive and greasy.
I'm looking for cheap, easy to apply and wear topicals that will give my propecia some extra kick.
I'd like to put spironolactone pills in my nizoral, but I just don't know how fast it will break down or if it will hurt the keto.


As for Applepoly, the active ingredients are procyanidins B2, B3, and C1. They were pure and used in 1-5% concentrations in the study. If you buy the stuff, it is not the B2, B3, and C1 of the study. Rather, it is a mix of polyphenols as they occur naturally in apple skin water extract. How effective might it be? Well, green tea had almost no effect on MB, yet pure EGCG is very strong. I think we want higher concentrations of the good stuff.


There are other experimentals out there, but they are either weak or expensive or messy, or questionable, most of them. I might be leaving some good ones out.

 

[CCS]

I have a half pound of licorice extract in my closet. Really high in that acid that inhibits androgens strongly. I'm afraid to use it though. Not sure if it will grow my scalp hair or kill it. But I got the stuff there, just waiting.

 

[Guest]

MB found that drinking spearmint tea has a systemic anti-androgenic effect.

How much spearmint tea should you drink daily to provide good anti-androgenic effects? I drink peppermint tea, I like the taste

 

[CCS]

You don't want systemic effects.

Just buy the english lavender and that spearmint above. Add 1/2 mL each to 30mL of everclear, add 30 mL of distilled water, and 3 grams of EGCG 98%, and a drop or two of distilled white vinegar. Mix. Apply with dropper. Now that is super cheap.

Some guys will get side effects. Those guys should do the soy stuff and EGCG instead. The soy stuff is promising, but I think it is too dilute.

 

[CCS]

I want a topical that will suppress 5ar2 locally even stronger than finasteride, but not go systemic. This is probably unlikely since finasteride is so strong.

Licorice is a very strong 5ar1 inhibitor though. Just wish I had something like that for 5ar2.

Until then, it is androgen receptor blockers, and estrogen mimicers I must get.

EGCG, and maybe the soy stuff, though they are so dilute. EGCG does not have the strong smell, and works kind of like dermmatch.

I can use the licorice on my nose at least.

 

[CCS]

I'm getting conflicting information out there.

Some say d-limonene is the 5ar inhibitor and that l-limonene makes free radicals. Another site says it is the other way around.

As for perillic alcohol, it seems to be a small part of english lavender, or little known of. So I just don't know if there is enough. And it might go systemic, and it is expensive and smells strong.

EGCG just seems to be the easiest thing to do.

 

[Nashville Hairline]

I saw this and meant to post. Some say polycystic ovarian syndrome in women is analogous to male pattern baldness in men

Phytother Res. 2009 Jul 7.
Spearmint herbal tea has significant anti-androgen effects in polycystic ovarian syndrome. a randomized controlled trial.
Grant P.

Department of Diabetes and Endocrinology, Eastbourne District General Hospital, Kings Drive, Eastbourne, East Sussex BN21 2UD, UK.

Hirsutism in polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS), consequent to elevated androgen levels leads to significant cosmetic and psychological problems. Recent research in Turkey has shown that spearmint tea has antiandrogenic properties in females with hirsutism. No research has yet been undertaken to assess whether a reduction in androgen levels brought about by spearmint tea, translates to a clinical improvement in the degree of hirsutism.This study was a two centre, 30 day randomized controlled trial. Forty two volunteers were randomized to take spearmint tea twice a day for a 1 month period and compared with a placebo herbal tea. At 0, 15 and 30 days of the study serum androgen hormone levels and gonadotrophins were checked, the degree of hirsutism was clinically rated using the Ferriman-Galwey score and a questionnaire (the modified DQLI = Dermatology Quality of Life Index) was used to assess improvements in the level of self-reported hirsutism.Forty one of 42 patients completed the study. Free and total testosterone levels were significantly reduced over the 30 day period in the spearmint tea group (p < 0.05). LH and FSH also increased (p < 0.05). Patient's subjective assessments of their degree of hirsutism scored by the modified DQLI were significantly reduced in the spearmint tea group (p < 0.05). There was, however, no significant reduction in the objective Ferriman-Galwey ratings of hirsutism between the two trial groups over the trial duration (p = 0.12). There was a clear and significant alteration in the relevant hormone levels. This is associated clinically with a reduction in the self-reported degree of hirsutism but unfortunately not with the objectively rated score.It was demonstrated and confirmed that spearmint has antiandrogen properties, the simple fact that this does not clearly translate into clinical practice is due to the relationship between androgen hormones and follicular hair growth and cell turnover time. Simply put, the study duration was not long enough. The original studies from Turkey were in fact only 5 days long. The time taken for hirsutism to resolve is significant and a much longer future study is proposed as the preliminary findings are encouraging that spearmint has the potential for use as a helpful and natural treatment for hirsutism in PCOS.

 

[Guest]

Spearmint tea is said to leave overall testosterone alone but reduce free testosterone. I don't know if Peppermint is the same, but Spearmint tea is difficult to get hold of unless you buy it online.

 

[cuebald]

Here's a link that seems to confirm that the D isomer of Limonene is used for cleaning etc
http://www.floridachemical.com/whatisd-limonene.htm

so it's the L isomer preferably I'm after (if indeed L-limonene has antiandrogenic effects)

edit - hm, reading the Wiki entry on Limonene says that D-Limonene is the natural form, and that D-Limonene doesn't have harmfull effects on the body.
All in all I've confused myself further.