I have been taking finasteride and dutasteride both once daily for 13 months with no results

[Needadvise]

Hey guys, looking for someones advice here- I have been taking finasteride and dutasteride both once daily for a little over year, as well as minoxidil once a day. I also added dermapen a few months ago every two weeks at 2.5mm. Prior, I took finasteride alone for a year. My hairloss progresses very slowly, although with that being said it has continued per usual for the duration that I have been treating it. I have had no side effects whatsoever, no sheds, just a slow continual loss. It's starting to get to the point where I can't cover it up any longer, as I am a norwood 2.5 going on 3 currently. I feel really dissapointed, and its seriously taking a toll on my wellbeing. I'm just looking for someone's opinion on what might be going on, and why nothing is working for me. Thanks so much everyone!

 

[Selb]

You may need a topical anti androgen if dutasteride isn’t stopping your loss.

 

[Needadvise]

You may need a topical anti androgen if dutasteride isn’t stopping your loss.

Thanks so much for the reply. Is a topical anti-androgen typically more effective than the oral route?

 

[Norwoody]

1. Topical antiandrogen and/or oral minoxidil
2. Topical estrogen
3. Nuclear or transplant

 

[Norwoody]

Thanks so much for the reply. Is a topical anti-androgen typically more effective than the oral route?

The oral version of antiandrogens is essentially the nuclear route, that is, transgender types of therapy.

 

[Selb]

Thanks so much for the reply. Is a topical anti-androgen typically more effective than the oral route?

It’s safer, not as effective as an oral anti androgen. But you can still get a good result with it if your problem is residual androgens

 

[Needadvise]

1. Topical antiandrogen and/or oral minoxidil
2. Topical estrogen
3. Nuclear or transplant

Thanks friend, I've been trying to do everything I can to avoid a transplant but its looking like I'm gonna have to pony up and start the search for a Doctor.

 

[Needadvise]

The oral version of antiandrogens is essentially the nuclear route, that is, transgender types of therapy.

Yikes. That's a no-go. Anything along those type of lines seen with the topical version? Thanks for answering my questions!

 

[Norwoody]

Thanks friend, I've been trying to do everything I can to avoid a transplant but its looking like I'm gonna have to pony up and start the search for a Doctor.

IMO the best chance you have is with oral minoxidil. As far as topical antiandrogens, RU and CB are empirically the lowest-risk highest-reward options there. Fluridil is very safe but it is weak. Even if used topically, things like bicalutamide, flutamide, darolutamide, enzalutamide, etc. are all pretty unpredictable. Some might not even work topically, I'm not sure. But those are the hardcore AAs used orally in hormone therapy. Kevin Mann mentioned he tried topical bica/flut and he couldn't handle the sides, although they worked. There's a handful of users on here including myself who have experimented with topical estrogen and have had no side effects. Bi-estro is a low dose compared to estrogel though, which I have no experience with the latter.

 

[Needadvise]

IMO the best chance you have is with oral minoxidil. As far as topical antiandrogens, RU and CB are empirically the lowest-risk highest-reward options there. Fluridil is very safe but it is weak. Even if used topically, things like bicalutamide, flutamide, darolutamide, enzalutamide, etc. are all pretty unpredictable. Some might not even work topically, I'm not sure. But those are the hardcore AAs used orally in hormone therapy. Kevin Mann mentioned he tried topical bica/flut and he couldn't handle the sides, although they worked. There's a handful of users on here including myself who have experimented with topical estrogen and have had no side effects. Bi-estro is a low dose compared to estrogel though, which I have no experience with the latter.

Wow, thanks a lot friend! Last one- would oral min be used in place of topical or in addition to? And am I right in thinking that the maximum length that any type of min would work for somebody is around 5 years, or would that be something that would work indefinitely kind of like finasteride? Thanks again for everything

 

[RStGeorge]

Hey guys, looking for someones advice here- I have been taking finasteride and dutasteride both once daily for a little over year, as well as minoxidil once a day. I also added dermapen a few months ago every two weeks at 2.5mm. Prior, I took finasteride alone for a year. My hairloss progresses very slowly, although with that being said it has continued per usual for the duration that I have been treating it.

I am taking similar meds to you.

Been on finasteride for one year. No results.

Then added oral dutasteride and oral min for another year. Seen some regrowth only recently at the 2 year mark.

Have also been doing monthly dermaneedling once a month for about a year as well.

A few months ago I added topical melatonin which seems to have stopped my hairloss dead in its tracks.

I have also just added estrogel but too early to notice any effect.

I am hoping that there is truth in the anecdotes of late responders so I would stick with your regimen, plus topical melatonin until you hit the 2 year mark.

 

[Norwoody]

Wow, thanks a lot friend! Last one- would oral min be used in place of topical or in addition to? And am I right in thinking that the maximum length that any type of min would work for somebody is around 5 years, or would that be something that would work indefinitely kind of like finasteride? Thanks again for everything

Some people use it in addition, but the oral is going to overpower any topical concentration so just take it orally. Hard to say how long it will work, but it works independently of your sex hormones so that helps.

 

[trialAcc]

IMO the best chance you have is with oral minoxidil. As far as topical antiandrogens, RU and CB are empirically the lowest-risk highest-reward options there. Fluridil is very safe but it is weak. Even if used topically, things like bicalutamide, flutamide, darolutamide, enzalutamide, etc. are all pretty unpredictable. Some might not even work topically, I'm not sure. But those are the hardcore AAs used orally in hormone therapy. Kevin Mann mentioned he tried topical bica/flut and he couldn't handle the sides, although they worked. There's a handful of users on here including myself who have experimented with topical estrogen and have had no side effects. Bi-estro is a low dose compared to estrogel though, which I have no experience with the latter.

I'm trying to find out what the risk/reward of a topical estrogen/estradiol actually is. Did you get regrowth ? Maintenance?

Same goes for oral min. The benefits seem pretty clear but there is no way you can be on oral min long term even at low doses, right?

 

[Norwoody]

I'm trying to find out what the risk/reward of a topical estrogen/estradiol actually is. Did you get regrowth ? Maintenance?

Same goes for oral min. The benefits seem pretty clear but there is no way you can be on oral min long term even at low doses, right?

I've only tried it for one month, twice a day. I want to focus on RU for a few months by itself to see if it works or not, then back to try the same with bi-estro. No sides on it though. Didn't notice any regrowth. In theory, estradiol is strong enough to not only be a growth agonist for the estrogen receptor, but it will downregulate the androgen receptors too. When taken orally, you're definitely risking it all, but topically there's not much of a risk. The risk might be puffy nipples, but I've never experienced that, Dogo guy hasn't, deathdiss neither. It seems to be too low a dose and not going to get as much systemic absorption via the scalp.

I am not aware of anyone on this forum who has been on oral min for longer than 2 years, so I cannot say. I've been on it only 9 months.

 

[trialAcc]

I've only tried it for one month, twice a day. I want to focus on RU for a few months by itself to see if it works or not, then back to try the same with bi-estro. No sides on it though. Didn't notice any regrowth. In theory, estradiol is strong enough to not only be a growth agonist for the estrogen receptor, but it will downregulate the androgen receptors too. When taken orally, you're definitely risking it all, but topically there's not much of a risk. The risk might be puffy nipples, but I've never experienced that, Dogo guy hasn't, deathdiss neither. It seems to be too low a dose and not going to get as much systemic absorption via the scalp.

I am not aware of anyone on this forum who has been on oral min for longer than 2 years, so I cannot say. I've been on it only 9 months.

But how can there be no risk of it going systematic if you're using it topically? Have you spoken to anyone on it long term with success? How long do you intent to stay on it?

 

[Norwoody]

But how can there be no risk of it going systematic if you're using it topically? Have you spoken to anyone on it long term with success? How long do you intent to stay on it?

Well it's not that there's no risk. But it's much, much less than any oral dose. I think deathdiss may have been taking it for a year? But I'll probably give it a solid 6 months during the second half of this year.

 

[Norwoody]

Those creams are designed to be absorbed by vaginal tissue. They don't absorb nearly as well on the scalp. Bi-estro is over the counter, in fact. Janey Elizabeth has experience with it, but mostly estrogel which is even more powerful.

 

[Norwoody]

I think that regardless it's not going to be a standalone unless you have very minor hair loss. You need to combine it with some kind of 5ARI, AA, or OM.

 

[trialAcc]

Those creams are designed to be absorbed by vaginal tissue. They don't absorb nearly as well on the scalp. Bi-estro is over the counter, in fact. Janey Elizabeth has experience with it, but mostly estrogel which is even more powerful.

Right, but what I mean is are the effects sustainable without continued use? If I regrow some hair will that hair be estrogen dependent or restart the AA process?

 

[Norwoody]

Right, but what I mean is are the effects sustainable without continued use? If I regrow some hair will that hair be estrogen dependent or restart the AA process?

Deathdiss claims that you can maintain the gains without staying on it for life, but I'm not sure about this. Like you said, does it create estrogen dependency? Or is it more permanent via downregulation of the AR? Dunno. I plan on finding out within the year, but that's going to take some time.