Impossible To Reduce Sebum

[Artas]

You won't believe what I have tried to reduce sebum. I strongly believe it contributes to hair loss, and even if it doesn't it still makes my hair look very thin 12 hours after washing it. I cannot wash twice a day as it is bad for your hair. So what else can I do?

Here is a list of what I have tried;
Topical;
- Grapseed Oil / Jojoba Oil (switch between them) + Peppermint Oil, 2 or 3 x a week (overnight)
- Jojoba Oil + Aloe Vera, 2 or 3 x a week (overnight)
- Nizoral Shampoo, Jason's Thin To Thick, Tea Tree Shampoo + Shampoo targeted for oily hair. I leave the shampoo in for 5 minutes.

Diet;
- No dairy products, drink a lot of water, peppermint tea, green tea, flax seed oil.

Supplements and medication;
- 1mg of Proscar
- Vitamin A
- Saw Plametto
- Nettle Extract

It is really stressing me out, what else can I do?

Thanks.

 

[squeegee]

You won't believe what I have tried to reduce sebum. I strongly believe it contributes to hair loss, and even if it doesn't it still makes my hair look very thin 12 hours after washing it. I cannot wash twice a day as it is bad for your hair. So what else can I do?

Here is a list of what I have tried;
Topical;
- Grapseed Oil / Jojoba Oil (switch between them) + Peppermint Oil, 2 or 3 x a week (overnight)
- Jojoba Oil + Aloe Vera, 2 or 3 x a week (overnight)
- Nizoral Shampoo, Jason's Thin To Thick, Tea Tree Shampoo + Shampoo targeted for oily hair. I leave the shampoo in for 5 minutes.

Diet;
- No dairy products, drink a lot of water, peppermint tea, green tea, flax seed oil.

Supplements and medication;
- 1mg of Proscar
- Vitamin A
- Saw Plametto
- Nettle Extract

It is really stressing me out, what else can I do?

Thanks.

Try that cocktail:

B5
Cystein peptide or NAC
L-carnitine
Help producing Coenzyme a.. Quick results ahead.. 3-5 days..

Overdose it! few times a day.. but not too much..or you will sh*t water.

Throw a good probiotic, Multivitamin with minerals and B-complex which are co-factors..for Coenzyme A.
Omega 3 with lot of EPA DHA and 6 ( GLA like borage oil) will also help a lot. Ratio 3:1 Pop a few pills a day.. Support good prostaglandins production.

Loose all the topical sh*t.. the problem is from the inside!!

Watch your diet: Eat protein and fiber! quit the sugar and milk. You already done that!

 

[Artas]

Ok, thank you so much for your reply.

 

[theShade]

A layer of sebum is important and fulfills the function of helping protect the scalp from infection. It's a natural defense mechanism of the body.

Excessive sebum could or could not contribute to balding, I don't know - but are you sure that indeed you do have excessive sebum? It could be just that as your hair is thinning, you begin to see it more - on every healthy person's head it's present though.

 

[Bryan]

A layer of sebum is important and fulfills the function of helping protect the scalp from infection. It's a natural defense mechanism of the body.

No it isn't. See the following excerpt from an article that was published in a medical journal:

"Sebum Secretion and Sebaceous Lipids", Stewart et al, Dermatologic Clinics -- Vol. 1, No. 3, July 1983 (BTW, the "Kligman" they refer to in all this text is Dr. Albert M. Kligman, MD PhD, one of the most famous names in the history of dermatology):

"Sebum is an oily substance that is secreted onto the skin surface from glands located in the dermis. Although a number of useful functions have been proposed for sebum, proof that sebum performs any of them is lacking. In furred mammals an essential function of sebum is to supply 7-dehydrocholesterol, which is converted to vitamin D by the action of sunlight and then ingested by the animal as it grooms itself. In man, however, the location of 7-dehydrocholesterol has been shown to be the epidermis rather than sebum. Sebum may act as a waterproofing agent for fur, but humans obviously have little need for this function. Kligman has specifically disproved the notions that sebum improves the barrier function of skin, that sebum helps to regulate the water content of the horny layer by forming emulsions with sweat, or that sebum on the skin surface is fungistatic or antibacterial.(21) Kligman regards the human sebaceous glands as 'living fossils' that lost their usefulness to our species as we lost our fur.(21)

(21) Kligman, A. M.: The uses of sebum? In Montagna, W., Ellis, R. A., and Silver, A. F. (eds.): Advances in the Biology of Skin. Volume 4. Oxford, Pergamon Press, 1963."

 

[theShade]

A layer of sebum is important and fulfills the function of helping protect the scalp from infection. It's a natural defense mechanism of the body.

No it isn't. See the following excerpt from an article that was published in a medical journal:

"Sebum Secretion and Sebaceous Lipids", Stewart et al, Dermatologic Clinics -- Vol. 1, No. 3, July 1983 (BTW, the "Kligman" they refer to in all this text is Dr. Albert M. Kligman, MD PhD, one of the most famous names in the history of dermatology):

"Sebum is an oily substance that is secreted onto the skin surface from glands located in the dermis. Although a number of useful functions have been proposed for sebum, proof that sebum performs any of them is lacking. In furred mammals an essential function of sebum is to supply 7-dehydrocholesterol, which is converted to vitamin D by the action of sunlight and then ingested by the animal as it grooms itself. In man, however, the location of 7-dehydrocholesterol has been shown to be the epidermis rather than sebum. Sebum may act as a waterproofing agent for fur, but humans obviously have little need for this function. Kligman has specifically disproved the notions that sebum improves the barrier function of skin, that sebum helps to regulate the water content of the horny layer by forming emulsions with sweat, or that sebum on the skin surface is fungistatic or antibacterial.(21) Kligman regards the human sebaceous glands as 'living fossils' that lost their usefulness to our species as we lost our fur.(21)

(21) Kligman, A. M.: The uses of sebum? In Montagna, W., Ellis, R. A., and Silver, A. F. (eds.): Advances in the Biology of Skin. Volume 4. Oxford, Pergamon Press, 1963."

Well possibly, but if we are going to draw our conclusions on the basis of one paper from 1983; than we should also note where the author implies that sebum evolved in order to perform some function related to the presence of fur on the body. Doesn't sound much like it causes balding then.

It's also suggested that sebum is present everywhere on the skin surface, yet our own observations would conclude that it's apparently present in far greater concentrations on the scalp, where hair is present. Why is that? Again this doesn't lend itself to the explanation, that sebum plays much of a role in balding either as a symptom or as a cause.

 

[Maelstrom]

I would desperately love to reduce sebum production as well. I've tried a few of the things that you've tried also with no luck.

Have you had a look on the immortal hair forum? There's stuff there about using crushed lithium oratate tablets and DMSO in a shampoo that's supposed to reduce sebum (but so many things are aren't they?)

Otherwise it's just accutane I'm afraid.

 

[Bryan]

Well possibly, but if we are going to draw our conclusions on the basis of one paper from 1983; than we should also note where the author implies that sebum evolved in order to perform some function related to the presence of fur on the body. Doesn't sound much like it causes balding then.

No, sebum doesn't cause balding.

It's also suggested that sebum is present everywhere on the skin surface, yet our own observations would conclude that it's apparently present in far greater concentrations on the scalp, where hair is present.

It's also present in far greater concentrations in certain other areas, too, like the forehead and the nose, and other parts of the face where hair isn't present at all.

Why is that?

Good question. Nobody knows why sebum is produced in wildy varying amounts, depending on body location.

Again this doesn't lend itself to the explanation, that sebum plays much of a role in balding either as a symptom or as a cause.

Nope. Sebum doesn't play any role in balding.

 

[Preston]

Nope. Sebum doesn't play any role in balding.

Proof please ...

 

[Bryan]

Nope. Sebum doesn't play any role in balding.

Proof please ...

Oh, come on! You really expect me to try to PROVE to you that sebum doesn't cause balding?

Try reading review articles of balding by any of the world-famous hairloss researchers; for example, "Male Pattern Hair Loss: Current Understanding", by David Whiting. You probably won't find any such articles at all that even mention sebum.

 

[Preston]

Oh, come on! You really expect me to try to PROVE to you that sebum doesn't cause balding?

Cause /= plays a part in

Try reading review articles of balding by any of the world-famous hairloss researchers; for example, "Male Pattern Hair Loss: Current Understanding", by David Whiting. You probably won't find any such articles at all that even mention sebum.

Wich still doesn't mean it has nothing to do with it .
It seems to me that we are far from knowing everything about the balding process , or am I misinformed ?
I'd say it does , at least in my case and someone else I've spoken with .

 

[Bryan]

Wich still doesn't mean it has nothing to do with it .
It seems to me that we are far from knowing everything about the balding process , or am I misinformed ?
I'd say it does , at least in my case and someone else I've spoken with .

Sorry, I wish I could persuade you otherwise, but I can't do it.

 

[Preston]

Sorry, I wish I could persuade you otherwise, but I can't do it.

Well since it's not a question of persuasion but of convincing , I'm quite glad of that .
Maybe you could give me your opinion on how this could not be harmful to hairs , because I can't :

PS : I'm trying to understand here , not pointing fingers on who's right or wrong .

 

[theShade]

Sorry, I wish I could persuade you otherwise, but I can't do it.

Well since it's not a question of persuasion but of convincing , I'm quite glad of that .
Maybe you could give me your opinion on how this could not be harmful to hairs , because I can't :

PS : I'm trying to understand here , not pointing fingers on who's right or wrong .

Well, you might want to start with whether a person who's hair ISN'T balding, will have any less or any more sebum on the ends of their hairs or on their scalp, than a person who is - with the hairs being taken from the same region of the scalp. You could also compare hairs from your hair loss zone and your permenant zone - but that's not a scientifically full-proof way of doing things, as Bryan pointed out sebum production of the skin varies by region.

And since sebum, like most properties at least partially determined by genetics - is likely to vary in quantity from person to person regardless of whether they are balding or not - you'll probably have to examine a large number of people, take the averages and then compare them. Trouble is - even if you do find a significant difference between the two groups, that would still not be any sort of evidence that sebum causes or has any effect on the balding process.

If you really want to understand then that's what you should do. Don't wait for other people to do the research for you, coz they probably won't. The whole process shouldn't require more than a descent microscope and some capacity for ridicule from your friends and collegues once you state the reasons for asking samples of their hair.

 

[Bryan]

Maybe you could give me your opinion on how this could not be harmful to hairs , because I can't

Why do you think it's harmful to hairs?

 

[raj47]

ha ha ha ha


impossible to reduce sebum

try to find post called accutane a cure you can find pic on me how isotrenitoin reduce sebum on head and further is its still reducing my sebum my overall head growth and darkening has been fairly increased compared to finax and dutastride

for me side effect from isotane is extreme muscle pain

more over i know one doctor who was at 45 years of age and he recovered with in minoxidil with in two months form NW5 to NW0

how mean its because of sebum.

im not a doctor or a nurse. i am mechanical engineer and i'll say its because of sebascaus gland sensitivity not to do with gene and gene is linked sebum if your father had high amount of sebum and tgl problem you may also get transfer of high tgl and sebum and then your sebum gland will overreact with 5 alpha and eventually your hair will die with in a long term.

 

[Preston]

Well, you might want to start with whether a person who's hair ISN'T balding, will have any less or any more sebum on the ends of their hairs or on their scalp, than a person who is - with the hairs being taken from the same region of the scalp. You could also compare hairs from your hair loss zone and your permenant zone - but that's not a scientifically full-proof way of doing things, as Bryan pointed out sebum production of the skin varies by region.

Well actually I am trying to analyse it , and what I see is "interesting"
I have kind of a weird hair loss ( extreme scalp pain , diffuse and acute loss without previous thining , pain and shed calmed down by prednisolone wich is an anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressant ... )
What I've noticed is that I can pull thick hairs on the sides of my head juste above my ears , a zone that souldn't be balding , like they weren't attached to anything and they almost all have big sebum plugs , that's an example .

And since sebum, like most properties at least partially determined by genetics - is likely to vary in quantity from person to person regardless of whether they are balding or not - you'll probably have to examine a large number of people, take the averages and then compare them. Trouble is - even if you do find a significant difference between the two groups, that would still not be any sort of evidence that sebum causes or has any effect on the balding process.
If you really want to understand then that's what you should do. Don't wait for other people to do the research for you, coz they probably won't. The whole process shouldn't require more than a descent microscope and some capacity for ridicule from your friends and collegues once you state the reasons for asking samples of their hair.

I agree and I was actually thinking of doing that . Since I'm studying biology I'm starting to have some basic knowledge about a variety of things .

Why do you think it's harmful to hairs?

Are you kidding me ?
Look at the size of that thickened sebum build up I've posted .... I mean , can you imagine a tree growing with a bowl of concrete around all it's roots ?

Just imagine a thick layer of sebum growing and solidifying where I colored in red :

 

[armandein]

Sorry, I wish I could persuade you otherwise, but I can't do it.

Well since it's not a question of persuasion but of convincing , I'm quite glad of that .
Maybe you could give me your opinion on how this could not be harmful to hairs , because I can't :

PS : I'm trying to understand here , not pointing fingers on who's right or wrong .

I bet you a drink that hairs of sides of scalp have not such sebum plug attached at the hair root. What could be the reason? Differences in sebum production? No in my opinion, but problems in sebum flow (creation and elimination flux) due at difficulties in absorbing it by the environment.
OTOH
Q. How sebum reached at the inner part of hair if sebum only travel outward?
R. Sebum spread in all directions.
Armando

 

[Bryan]

Why do you think it's harmful to hairs?

Are you kidding me ?
Look at the size of that thickened sebum build up I've posted .... I mean , can you imagine a tree growing with a bowl of concrete around all it's roots ?

Just imagine a thick layer of sebum growing and solidifying where I colored in red : <snip image>

What makes you think (or assume) that sebum is encasing the control center of the hair follicle, which is the dermal papilla? Do you really think it's like a "bowl of concrete" around the dermal papilla, even though the sebaceous glands release sebum higher up the follicular canal?

 

[captain_que]

I´ve had acne for ten years, losing hair for five. I feel like the sebum might hold up the DHT, oversensitizing the follicle etc.
And yes, the temples are ALWAYS greasy.

If this is the case for some people, maybe their hair would be doing just fine with the levels of DHT they were having without the overproduction of sebum in certain areas of the scalp...?