Is there a way to block DHT receptors?

[forzapanino]

Hi everyone, I don't have a scientific background, I'm just an outsider who tries to collect informations. We know that hair loss is caused by DHT binding with follicles. I was thinking if there's some way to block this process by antagonizing the receptors that bind to that specific hormone. I'm not necessarily saying on a sistemic level but also on a topical level. It doesn't seem a complex thing on a theoretical level.

 

[TDE97]

RU, CB and Fluridil. Except they can go systematic with severe side effects if it happens

 

[forzapanino]

which one of them is better?

 

[Capone]

Curcumin degrades androgen receptors in the scalp.

 

[forzapanino]

Curcumin degrades androgen receptors in the scalp.

how do you apply it on the scalp?

 

[TDE97]

which one of them is better?

Fluridil > CB> RU ( lesser side effects)

RU > CB > Fluridil (effectiveness)

 

[jazz1]

I use Topical Finasteride with anti androgen compounds, see here:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/topical-minoxidil-finasteride-mixture-check-here.126633/

 

[NickyA]

I believe that the moment we develop an efficient, safe topical competitive inhibitor for DHT receptors on the scalp will be the moment we'll be able to considerably halt hair loss for most men. Sadly it doesn't seem like the industry's interested in learning more about the DHT receptor or competitive, non-competitive or irreversible inhibition for it, and the only similar treatment so far is CB or RU which is very experimental and it seems like a lot of people have trouble getting it from trustworthy sources.

So it seems we're mostly stuck with the same treatments since the early 2000's, although there's been a great improvement in the techniques used for hair transplants, and they're cheaper now, which is awesome. Nowadays hoping to keep decent hair for 15-20 years if you're a well responder to meds and willing to get one or two transplants down the line is pretty realistic.

I don't believe hair cloning would be a real solution since it'd be prohibitively expensive for most people. However in 10-15 years we'd probably be able to genetically modify DNA to make baldness not a problem for our children, provided you have the money to do it. We'd only need to figure out the main genes involved in hair loss since we already have the technology (CRISPR) to deactivate or inhibit certain sequences of our DNA (For example, there's been a couple of Chinese designer babies made to be immune to HIV and some types of cancer that were born two or three years ago) however there's a lot of opposition and the scientist who did it first is currently in jail due to an ethics scandal, read He Jiankui affair if you want. I doubt this'll be as controversial later on if it's revealed to be safe. There's also a great amount of frozen eggs and embryos that are expected to eventually be forced to be discarded or donated to science in 5-10 years. Who knows, maybe someone'll make an in-promptu discovery of something else that can halt or reverse hair loss, like it happened with Minoxidil and finasteride.

 

[pegasus2]

We

I believe that the moment we develop an efficient, safe topical competitive inhibitor for DHT receptors on the scalp will be the moment we'll be able to considerably halt hair loss for most men. Sadly it doesn't seem like the industry's interested in learning more about the DHT receptor or competitive, non-competitive or irreversible inhibition for it, and the only similar treatment so far is CB or RU which is very experimental and it seems like a lot of people have trouble getting it from trustworthy sources.

We can already do that with finasteride and dutasteride. They don't work for everyone, but they work long-term for over 90% of men without serious side effects.

 

[BetaBoy]

The issue is dht has an extremely high binding affinity for the AR and there aren't really any non steroidal anti androgens that can outcompete DHT, even the strongest recently approved AA's like darolutamide and enzalutamide don't come close. For that reason it is much more effective to target the production of DHT using 5ARI's

 

[NickyA]

We

We can already do that with finasteride and dutasteride. They don't work for everyone, but they work long-term for over 90% of men without serious side effects.

As you've said, they don't work for everyone, and sadly there's a lot of fear-mongering about finasteride that causes nocebo effect prone people to freak out or convinces them to avoid taking it until the situation's much worse.

About its efficacy, how long term are we speaking? As far as I know the longest cohort study was done in Italy for 10 years I think, and on 118 men or so, which isn't a big enough sample. I hope I can join the club of men that have written success stories here were they've been cheating genetics for 10 or even 15 years only on the big 3 but the reality is that isn't everyone's case.

 

[pegasus2]

As you've said, they don't work for everyone, and sadly there's a lot of fear-mongering about finasteride that causes nocebo effect prone people to freak out or convinces them to avoid taking it until the situation's much worse.

About its efficacy, how long term are we speaking? As far as I know the longest cohort study was done in Italy for 10 years I think, and on 118 men or so, which isn't a big enough sample. I hope I can join the club of men that have written success stories here were they've been cheating genetics for 10 or even 15 years only on the big 3 but the reality is that isn't everyone's case.

You said we'll have something that works for most men, you didn't say everyone. No topical AR antagonist will work for everyone either. I'd actually expect the ones available to work for less people than dutasteride. A lot of men get their follicles raped unnecessarily due to the fear-mongering.

There's this 10 year study of 523 men. That's a pretty large sample. https://www.oatext.com/Long-term-(1...3-Japanese-men-with-androgenetic-alopecia.php

If finasteride/dutasteride doesn't work for you, then mother nature desperately wants you to be bald. Go with it.

 

[NickyA]

You said we'll have something that works for most men, you didn't say everyone. No topical AR antagonist will work for everyone either. I'd actually expect the ones available to work for less people than dutasteride. A lot of men get their follicles raped unnecessarily due to the fear-mongering.

There's this 10 year study of 523 men. That's a pretty large sample. https://www.oatext.com/Long-term-(1...3-Japanese-men-with-androgenetic-alopecia.php

If finasteride/dutasteride doesn't work for you, then mother nature desperately wants you to be bald. Go with it.

I agree, that's why I don't consider finasteride or dutasteride the be all-end all solution for a lot of people who suffer hair loss. Plus there's people who have other issues on top (Such as gyno, for example) or are side effect prone. This problem would be solved with a good, efficient topical. And it'd be another tool for the majority who can tolerate 5A-Reductase inhibitors nicely.

Thanks for the study, 523 is indeed a better sample, I hope we get more of these in the future. It seems to support the popular idea held at these forums that finasteride works best on NW1, 2 or 3's as a preventative measure, and although the results were average, they were the happiest with the treatment.

I hope they work for me honestly, because I don't want to have to start considering getting a hair transplant by the time I'm 28, ala Rakitic or Elon Musk, and I'm not sure if I've the head shape to just shave it. We'll see in two or three weeks after I bic my head just in case finasteride causes a big shed.