Is there really any evidence against the theory of poor blood flow?

S

SlowMoe

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I mean, it seems like all the signs are there


-Confined to galea region typically
-Galea region is very tight in balding folk
-Low oxygen measurements were found in balding areas
-Minoxidil is a vasodilator
-Laser therapy is a vasodilator
-When scalps were loosened using botox/ manually hair loss was reversed

I don't see why people don't acknowledge this....?
 
casperz

casperz

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How would you explain the fact that non DHT sensitive hairs from the back of the scalp when transplanted into
this "poor blood flow" area seem to thrive just fine?
 
Jacob

Jacob

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http://www.phyto-stem.com/web/HairLossTheory.aspx

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I'm not saying it's one way or the other btw. I'm using that topical combo that Mark/Israelite has posted about, and this is something the Dr behind the products had to say:

We also developed a new product with bitter-orange extract for people with spider veins. Bitter orange has a strong vasoconstricting component (replacing ephedrine).If it could penetrate the scalp and reach the blood vessels, it can help with slow blood circulation in the scalp which is the main reason (in my opinion - and I am not yet ready with my article) of multiple problems leading to balding, including increased levels of DHT that does not clear fast enough and accumulates locally. I would suggest alternating it with a vasodilator (like arginine if it could reach the blood vessels) so that the blood vessels alternately contract and relax and doing so they increase the rate of the blood flow and wash away used metabolites and deliver fresh supplies to the scalp cells.
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The ingreds looked good to me regardless of this blood-flow theory. It'll be different if he starts calling it a cure :woot:

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Some more from him:

It took me quite a while but I will tell you part of a possible “unified balding theory” that may have practical merit. It is a bit perplexing that when people become older and their production of testosterone is declining they start to develop male pattern baldness. I found a parallel in prostate enlargement which is also hormone dependent and starts when hormones actually are on the decline. A team of physicians found that the concentration of DHT at the prostate and nearby blood veins (but not arteries) was almost 100 times higher than the hormone concentration in other parts of the body. They found that the venous blood return mechanism which is a system that involves contracting of veins and valves along the veins that block the blood from flowing back down the veins are hardened or damaged and as a result the blood flow that is supposed to return the blood from the prostate area to the heart is very slow and causes the accumulation of DHT at the vicinity of the prostate. They managed to heal completely many of their patients with enlarged prostates simply by making them sleep on beds that are tilted so that the feet were higher than the heart level. Same with the scalp issue and that will be Part 2 for another time but the idea is now very clear. There is enough blood flow in the scalp but it is too slow to wash away unwanted metabolites. The hardening of the blood vessels is gradual which can explain the pattern in “pattern balding”. I am calling this a unified theory because it can put together most if not all the “apparently contradicting” issues that are involved in male pattern baldness and suggest a practical approach to the problem. I will elaborate on this part later.
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I guess one question to him would be- what about the younger dudes who have male pattern baldness..some quite bad..?
 
S

SlowMoe

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casperz said:
How would you explain the fact that non DHT sensitive hairs from the back of the scalp when transplanted into
this "poor blood flow" area seem to thrive just fine?
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Because the incision causes new blood vessels to form locally, providing a clear blood supply.

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It is all about the amount of oxygen in the environment.......The scalps of balding guys typically are very tight, cutting off blood flow........This low oxygen situation decreases the amount of estradiol-DHT's compeditor, because the synthesis of testosterone to estradiol needs high oxygen. So what you have is more testosterone locally for the 5ar to bind to, which is why you find more DHT in low oxygen environments such as the scalp and the prostate, which was also found to be low in bloodflow in those with prostate issues
 
N

Nashville Hairline

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If it was blood flow then that would surely mean pattern baldness was more prevalent in women?
 
S

SlowMoe

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It's reduced oxygen + dht that kills hair...

Typically there is a certain ratio of dihydrotestosterone and estradiol. Each one of these are converted from testosterone via 5alphareductase or aromatase, respectively.

When there is not a lot of oxygen, the transformation to estradiol is severely hampered, because aromatization is very oxygen dependent, so the testosterone that normally turns into estradiol is now free for the circulating 5ar to bind to and turn into DHT...So anywhere where there is low bloodflow, you have more DHT, and less estradiol......

It's the DHT/estradiol ratio that kills our hair imo....That's why if you take away DHT or add estradiol to the skin tissue, balding stops :)
 
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ABJac

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Hence why Niacin (B-3) needs to be in every hair loss regimen. Regular niacin flushing will make a huge difference.

Niacin cannot be directly converted to nicotinamide, but both compounds could be converted to NAD and NADP in vivo. Nicotinic acid, nicotinamid and tryptophan (via quinoline acid) are co-factors for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADP). NAD converts to NADP by phosphorylation using NAD-kinase enzyme. They are coenzyme of various (more than 100) hydrogenases being important in hydrogen transfer almost in every oxidation reduction reaction in the body.[SUP][5][/SUP] NAD is important in catabolism of fat, carbohydrate, protein and alcohol as well as cell signaling and DNA repair and NADP mostly in anabolism reaction such as fatty acid and cholesterol synthesis.[SUP][5][/SUP] High energy requirements (brain) or high turnover rate (gut, skin) organs are usually the most susceptible to their deficiency.[SUP][6][/SUP] Although the two are identical in their vitamin activity, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacological effects (lipid modifying effects) as niacin. Nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing.[SUP][7][/SUP] Nicotinamide may be toxic to the liver at doses exceeding 3 g/day for adults.[SUP][8][/SUP] Niacin is a precursor toNAD+/NADH and NADP+/NADPH, which play essential metabolic roles in living cells.[SUP][9][/SUP]Niacin is involved in both DNA repair, and the production of steroid hormones in the adrenal gland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niacin#Therapeutic_effects

It's important to note that the flush caused by niacin is not harmful or dangerous. It is actually a sign of improved blood flow and circulation. Also niacin oxygenates the blood.
When you get a niacin "flush" it is an indication that the niacin is causing small blood vessels in your body to expand in size. Many of your small blood vessels, called capillaries, are so small that blood cells can only go through them in single file or if they are flexible enough to fold over. Blood carries nutrients, hormones, oxygen, and other vital substances to every cell in the body and it also carries away natural toxic waste products of all cells, such as carbon dioxide that is breathed out through the lungs (in with the good air and out with the bad air).

It is the capillaries that take care of the vast majority of all cells in the body. There are large arteries near the heart, and they get smaller and smaller as they extend from the heart. At the end of every large artery is a very large network of capillaries, with a high number of them near the surface of the skin.
The niacin causes even the tiniest capillaries to expand (dialate, or open up) so they are able to carry 2 or 3 blood cells at the same time. This means a tremendous increase in blood flow, nutrients, oxygen, hormones, and other vital substances to the areas supplied by these capillaries.
Flushing causes the skin to turn red and tingle, and it will feel hot and itchy. This particularly happens to the face, neck, and ears. Dry skin has also been experienced. The hot feeling is similar to "hot flashes" experienced by women during menopause. "Flushing" occurs because the capillaries are opening up in the skin, which is more obvious, but it also means that capillaries throughout the body are also opening up.
As the blood flows in these areas it helps the cells of the blood vessels and capillaries get rid of their natural toxic waste products, which is less able to happen without a good blood flow. This also increases the production of 'histamines.' Histamines are a natural substance produced by every cell in the body when it is under attack and it carries away the toxins. Histamine is what causes itching.

While there is certainly no vitamin that can 'CURE' hair loss, the reduced oxygen, reduced blood flow, tight skin tissue, weak capillaries, etc are all addressed thoroughly by niacin. Acne also being a androgen mediated affliction is almost entirely relieved by niacin supplementation, so there is no way the scalp would not benefit in several ways.
 
S

SlowMoe

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ABJac said:
Hence why Niacin (B-3) needs to be in every hair loss regimen. Regular niacin flushing will make a huge difference.

Niacin cannot be directly converted to nicotinamide, but both compounds could be converted to NAD and NADP in vivo. Nicotinic acid, nicotinamid and tryptophan (via quinoline acid) are co-factors for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADP). NAD converts to NADP by phosphorylation using NAD-kinase enzyme. They are coenzyme of various (more than 100) hydrogenases being important in hydrogen transfer almost in every oxidation reduction reaction in the body.[SUP][5][/SUP] NAD is important in catabolism of fat, carbohydrate, protein and alcohol as well as cell signaling and DNA repair and NADP mostly in anabolism reaction such as fatty acid and cholesterol synthesis.[SUP][5][/SUP] High energy requirements (brain) or high turnover rate (gut, skin) organs are usually the most susceptible to their deficiency.[SUP][6][/SUP] Although the two are identical in their vitamin activity, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacological effects (lipid modifying effects) as niacin. Nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing.[SUP][7][/SUP] Nicotinamide may be toxic to the liver at doses exceeding 3 g/day for adults.[SUP][8][/SUP] Niacin is a precursor toNAD+/NADH and NADP+/NADPH, which play essential metabolic roles in living cells.[SUP][9][/SUP]Niacin is involved in both DNA repair, and the production of steroid hormones in the adrenal gland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niacin#Therapeutic_effects

It's important to note that the flush caused by niacin is not harmful or dangerous. It is actually a sign of improved blood flow and circulation. Also niacin oxygenates the blood.
When you get a niacin "flush" it is an indication that the niacin is causing small blood vessels in your body to expand in size. Many of your small blood vessels, called capillaries, are so small that blood cells can only go through them in single file or if they are flexible enough to fold over. Blood carries nutrients, hormones, oxygen, and other vital substances to every cell in the body and it also carries away natural toxic waste products of all cells, such as carbon dioxide that is breathed out through the lungs (in with the good air and out with the bad air).

It is the capillaries that take care of the vast majority of all cells in the body. There are large arteries near the heart, and they get smaller and smaller as they extend from the heart. At the end of every large artery is a very large network of capillaries, with a high number of them near the surface of the skin.
The niacin causes even the tiniest capillaries to expand (dialate, or open up) so they are able to carry 2 or 3 blood cells at the same time. This means a tremendous increase in blood flow, nutrients, oxygen, hormones, and other vital substances to the areas supplied by these capillaries.
Flushing causes the skin to turn red and tingle, and it will feel hot and itchy. This particularly happens to the face, neck, and ears. Dry skin has also been experienced. The hot feeling is similar to "hot flashes" experienced by women during menopause. "Flushing" occurs because the capillaries are opening up in the skin, which is more obvious, but it also means that capillaries throughout the body are also opening up.
As the blood flows in these areas it helps the cells of the blood vessels and capillaries get rid of their natural toxic waste products, which is less able to happen without a good blood flow. This also increases the production of 'histamines.' Histamines are a natural substance produced by every cell in the body when it is under attack and it carries away the toxins. Histamine is what causes itching.

While there is certainly no vitamin that can 'CURE' hair loss, the reduced oxygen, reduced blood flow, tight skin tissue, weak capillaries, etc are all addressed thoroughly by niacin. Acne also being a androgen mediated affliction is almost entirely relieved by niacin supplementation, so there is no way the scalp would not benefit in several ways.
Click to expand...

Interesting, good read thanks
 
A

ABJac

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Jacob said:
I think there are quite a few other things one could also take if looking at supplements for blood flow etc. Fruitflow is one that I've been taking thanks to Swanson's BOGO awhile back: http://www.dsm.com/en_US/foodandbeverages/public/home/pages/prod-fruitflow.jsp
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Interesting, never heard of this. What is the mechanism in which this works? Does it show increased blow flow throughout the entire body, or is the limited to just arterial build up? As most guys on here are probably pretty young, I doubt general blow flow is the concern, I think finding a way to increase blood flow to the extremities is the real goal.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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ABJac said:
Interesting, never heard of this. What is the mechanism in which this works? Does it show increased blow flow throughout the entire body, or is the limited to just arterial build up? As most guys on here are probably pretty young, I doubt general blow flow is the concern, I think finding a way to increase blood flow to the extremities is the real goal.
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From part of an email I received from them:
[FONT=&amp]What we have observed through our clinical and mechanistic (proteomics) studies are that Fruitflow suppresses platelet aggregation by downregulating P-selectin expression, decreasing thromboxane A2 levels and fibrinogen binding." [/FONT]
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That should help with blood flow throughout the whole body..I'm sure the extremities would be the last to benefit though. A bit of a joke there :woot:

, “Abnormal blood platelet aggregation can be described as a ‘stickiness’ or spikiness of platelets in the blood vessel. This change in the formation of the blood platelets increases the risk of blood clots and of cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or arterial disease. Fruitflow actively smoothes blood platelets, facilitating the flow of blood around the body.”
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My initial interest in it..besides the BOGO offer...was the heart/cardio benefits of it. Our friends' cardiologist had also commented how she may benefit from it. She has PAD as well as heart problems.

They are recruiting for a memory/cerebral blood flow study using Fruitflow: http://www.nia.nih.gov/alzheimers/c...resveratrol-memory-fitness-and-cerebral-blood

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Butcher's Broom and Horse Chestnut are a couple of other things touted for their circulation-in-the-extremities benefits. Combo product:
https://www.standardprocess.com/Med...t-Detail-Sheets/horsechestnutcomplexM1338.pdf

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Ruscogenin also has vasoconstrictive properties via adrenergic mechanisms. Its effectiveness has been demonstrated in vivo, in topical application at 1.6% [3]. The mechanism has not yet been properly established. Certain studies show that it is an alpha-adrenergic blockade, others an activation of the alpha-2 adrenergic receptors stimulating the release of noradrenaline [4, 5]. Finally, the vasoconstrictive effect may be mediated by calcium and the alpha-1 adrenergic receptors [4].
These vasoconstrictive and permeability reduction properties enable ruscogenin to activate the microcirculation.
By stimulating blood circulation in the capillaries, ruscogenin helps to decongest the undereye puffiness caused by slow circulation.
These elements demonstrate the interest of using ruscogenin to treat undereye puffiness.
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http://www.etatpur.co.uk/index.php/ruscogenin-sheet

http://jp.indena.com/pdf/ruscogenins.pdf

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http://www.phytosomes.info/public/escin_phytosome.asp
 
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