JolDee's story

[JolDee]

Hello everyone! I'm a 27 y/o male and I'm losing my hair (surprise!). My hair loss started around age 18 when my hair dresser commented that I appeared to be losing my hair. At the time I was a little worried but I still clearly had a thick, full head, and I took no actions - I mean, come on, I was 18. As the years progressed I noticed that my hair seemed to be getting a little bit thinner and that my hairline was beginning to recede. I was in denial and basically ignored it...

Then in ~2005 (around age 21/22) I had had enough. I was an aspiring model in the years prior and my hair was as much a part of me as an arm or leg. So I went to my doctor and he prescribed Propecia. I took it for about 9 months to a year, not really noticing a difference (I wanted to see growth, not maintenance) so I stopped taking it. It was a pain having to remember to take something everyday and the stuff costs a fortune (back then I was paying ~$80 a month).

Mid-2008 came along and my life (personal & professional) had begun to stabilize - ironic considering this is about when many other's went to sh*t. I started taking Propecia again and have been on it ever since. It's been maintaining my hair pretty well except that over the course of the past few months I've noticed a significant increase in my hair loss. I guess technically I'm still only a 2 on the Norwood scale, but my general hair count/density has also decreased very noticeably in just the past month:
- My hairline has receded much further and I can see through to my scalp far too easily (and I already have very fine and blondish hair).
- There are more terminal hairs on my head than I have ever seen.
- I have been shedding
- Experiencing hair breakage while brushing
Basically, I'm caught in the bermuda triangle of hair loss - everything that can, is going wrong. Also, although it is less tangible - my scalp feels as though the hair on my head is being rejected. My hair feels foreign - I don't know if that is all in my head, but it's not a good thing for someone who loves their hair.

I'm fairly certain that a contributing factor has been the job I've had for the past year - it's fast paced and can be rather intense, with a fair amount of stress. But whatever the reason, it's time to beat that son-of-a-b**ch hair loss once and for all.

My focuses for the attack (many of you won't be surprised by the choices):
- Cardio
- Minoxidil/Rogaine
- Shampoo/Conditioner

Cardio
Background: I haven't been much of an athlete since early high-school. I'm 6' 4", 185lbs and slim - so I haven't placed too much importance on working out. Unfortunately, while my body appears to be in decent shape, my cardiovascular system is definitely wanting.
Method: A strict regiment of CARDIO workouts. I hate cardio, sweating pisses me off - but I'm going to suck it up and start with a 30 minutes at least 4 times a week. I started 2 weeks ago and so far I've managed 3 times a week. I'll work my way up from 30 minutes but I need to set realistic goals.
Reasoning: Aside from the other health benefits, one thing that most if not all hair treatments have in common is that they increase the blood flow to the hair follicle. If my cardiovascular system is already compromised, then how can I expect any treatments to work at 100% effectiveness.
Bonus: I've also started taking the Nioxin Recharging Complex supplements. I already take a multivitamin and some other supplements, but the proprietary herbal blend in that product interests me - while I've only been taking it a month, and I can't say it's had an effect on my head, I have noticed a slight increase in hair growth on the rest of my body. I'm not overly hairy to begin with so I'm fine with that.

Minoxidil/Rogaine
Background: None. I haven't been using any re-growth treatments. I do use the shampoo and conditioner from Nioxin (system 2), but that doesn't really count.
Method: I've ordered Rogaine 5% foam and Kirkland generic minoxidil. I've put it off for as long as I could but the time has come. Foam in the morning and the generic oil in the evening. Why two different brands? My hair is very fine and dirty to light blond. Even a tiny bit of oil in my hair changes it to a darker color and weighs it down significantly - foam supposedly avoids this and at night, I don't think my dreams will care what my hair looks like.
Reasoning: In my research, time and again Rogaine/minoxidil comes up as an option that really works (despite the fact that 'they' aren't sure exactly how). I just haven't wanted to add the additional commitment of time and money.

Shampoo/Conditioner
Background: I use Nioxin System 2 (shampoo & conditioner).
Method: I'm less certain on this front. I'm looking in to different options for ketoconazole shampoos (Regenpure or Nizoral), but damn - they're expensive for such a little bottle. My hair is 6" long in some areas, a pea size amount doesn't do it for me.
Reasoning: I'm getting bored with using the same shampoo and conditioner every single day and I wonder if my hair is too. Maybe it needs something different now and then to keep the effectiveness up. Ketoconazole is interesting to me, but I haven't read enough positive reviews to fully convince me that it's worth the investment. I'm already adding Rogaine to my monthly budget...I'll probably go through a bottle of that shampoo every month too...


If you've bothered to read this far I'm impressed. My story is no more unique than anyone else's here on the forum, but still it's a support/information forum and just typing this out makes me feel a little better. Any tips are appreciated, especially regarding ketoconazole and your experience with it (worth the money?). Also, I see that there is an online pharmacy recommended through this site that ships from Canada - but it's only a little bit less expensive than my pharmacy - any other places people can recommend? Those sites that I see on Google are very tempting but the pills are probably fake and there is no way in hell I'm going to risk that.

Pictures will follow soon enough. I'm very eager to see me own progress and I'm more than a little bit apprehensive that if the above plan of attack doesn't work...then what the F*** am I going to do, lol.

 

[JolDee]

Re: The Big Guns - Let the battle begin!

Pics

 

[JolDee]

Re: The Big Guns - Let the battle begin!

The rest of the pics

 

[TheLastHairbender]

Firsties!

Dude I just had a great long reply typed out to you but I accidentally refreshed the page and lost it and don't have it in me to do it all again right now.

Basically the main points were: 1) Yes, switch to keto shampoo. It's a bit more expensive but really, what, $5 a month more? That should be a no-brainer, you don't have many opportunities to do something good for your hair for $5. Start with a 1% keto shampoo, use it 2-4 times per week, increasing your use gradually so you don't get irritation or dryness. Leave it on the scalp for about 5 minutes while you shower then rinse it out.

2) I used the Nioxin stage 2 for about a year as well. I never shed so much in my life as the year I used it. It was almost surely just coincidence, but, at best, it wasn't enough to stop me from going NW3 - NW5 within a year. I would swap that costly system for keto and Aveda Pure Abundance thickening shampoo in a heartbeat (or try the L'Oreal Vive Pro for men thickening shampoo if you're budget conscious, it's about $5 compared to Aveda's $30 with the conditioner). Then you can spend the time you used to apply the scalp activating foam and liquid to apply minoxidil and spironolactone instead - two things that are less expensive and actually do work.

I did read that the Nioxin products contain Adenosine and maybe even Aminexil, both of which reportedly can be beneficial for hair loss, but there's no reason to trade two first-rate treatments for speculative second- or third-rate ones. I think there's really no comparing Nioxin's five-part system to one made of finasteride/minoxidil/keto/spironolactone - and the latter combo can even be cheaper depending on your method of buying the finasteride.


3) You might also want to take a look at dutasteride. I say this lightly, because the stuff can be a bit harsher than finasteride, but I know some people who've plateaued on finasteride and started to lose ground have explored dutasteride for continued DHT inhibition. HairLossTalk.com user Ahmeda has a thread about precisely this right now, you might want to take a look:

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=68094&start=0

I already replied to your post in another thread more specifically about spironolactone, might be worth a look too since it sounds like the anti-androgen component of your treatment plan is faltering. Getting that under control will help the minoxidil enhance, rather than simply replace, thinning hair. Yours is very light so fortunately it reduces the contrast between the roots and the scalp, but I know what you mean when you say it seems more prone to breakage and follicle-rejection. Mine is almost the same, slightly darker, but for some reason just feels more prone to male pattern baldness. Hope some of those solutions treat you right!

 

[JolDee]

I hate when that happens- whenever I'm posting something longer than a paragraph, I *select all* and *copy* the text. Too many times have I written a full page only to have it lost to the browser demons: back page and refresh, lol.

Thanks for re-typing it all!

1. As far as shampoo goes, I think I will order a keto shampoo after all. I like the Regenepure DR one and I've also already ordered Avalon Organics - Biotin B Complex Shampoo/Conditioner (http://amzn.com/B000IZ8KYU). I guess my concerns about the extra cost stems from the fact that the Regenepure is 5x the cost of Nioxin - but if it works, then it's worth it. I'm spoiled at the moment because I used to work at a hair salon and I could get the huge 33.8oz Nioxin's for 50% off retail (only slightly more expensive on Amazon).

2. If I don't like the Avalon poo/cond that I ordered I may try out the Aveda, although it doesn't seem to contain any hair-loss targeted ingredients. As for the Nioxin system scalp treatment (step 3) - I never used that. I considered it, but it looked like too much bother to apply (which is one of the reasons I was avoiding minoxidil).

Your post made me think of an article I was reading about Nioxin, which contributed to my decision to switch: A List of Active Ingredients in Nioxin

Basically, Nioxin's primary active ingredients are just sunscreen, lol - the rest are Vitamins and Nutrients which can be had in other shampoo's and conditioners. I never liked the list of ingredients on the Nioxin bottle (the list is 22 lines and has about 3-5 ingredients per line...).

3. It's funny you should mention dutasteride, I was just reading about that here on the forums. Especially the posting from a couple years ago where some guy named "Cured" squeezed out his Dutas capsules and rubbed it on his head with minoxidil. Hilarious. :shakehead: Joking aside, I'm trying to avoid taking any more prescriptions internally - Propecia causes mild sexual side effects for me, but I live with it. I'm open to vitamins, minerals and supplements, which I rarely have any reaction to - but the dutasteride sounds a bit hardcore to me at the moment. Maybe in 5+ years if my new regiment begins to fail... However, by then I should be able to afford a decent transplant.

I'm sure almost everyone here, including yourself are doing the same:
>My primary goal is to grow back a decent amount of hair. If that is not possible then to at least stop it where it's at.
>My secondary goal is to maintain as much hair as possible, for as long as possible, until new treatments that work better come out on the market (AND are affordable).

 

[TheLastHairbender]

Wow, I didn't know Regenepure is so expensive! I'd do a little more research before taking the plunge cost-wise. It's not clear to me that that particular brand is any more beneficial than standard Nizoral or generic keto shampoo which can be had for much less. It is just a ketoconazole shampoo right? Sorry I don't have the background on that product yet.

Yes, you're right about the Aveda shampoo, there's no hair loss fighting going on there, just cosmetic thickening at best, which is probably still very minor. It's just a good quality second shampoo to rotate in on the Keto off-days. I actually use the L'Oreal Vive Pro right now and I'm happy with it for the price. I don't think there's much promise from any shampoos, so I'd choose whatever you're comfortable with to rotate in with the keto. Some people opt for tea tree oil shampoos, others for caffeine-infused ones, but none of them has emerged as a clear winner as far as I can tell, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I've even thought about not shampooing on the keto off-days if dryness became a problem, which it has not.

Regarding the Nioxin - yes, overpriced and lacking on solid ingredients. I do actually still have the foam product which has SPF 15 sunscreen in it - I've combed it in on a few occasions that I knew I'd be out in the Arizona sun all day to protect my then-visible scalp from burning. About the only thing Nioxin's been good for IMO.

Regarding dutasteride - I think you have a very sensible viewpoint on that. I would avoid it if at all possible too, but reserve it for a last line of defense if you end up in such bad condition that nothing else matters anymore. If you're looking for more natural and gentle supplements, I've been very pleased with taking 900mg EPA/DHA Omega-3s, 5mg biotin, 3g MSM, and a standard centrum multivitamin every day. The only other thing I might add is a daily B-complex vitamin to balance out the biotin intake, as you don't want the ratio of biotin-to-B-vitamins to get out of whack - sporadic breakouts of acne have been reported as a result. None of that stuff is even going to come close to replacing finasteride or dutasteride though, so I'd prioritize it way down the list.

I think you have a great attitude about all of this. You've been at it a while with the finasteride so you're no rookie to treating male pattern baldness, just remember the mantra that simply maintaining should be considered success. Your hair is still in great shape so I think continued maintenance should be satisfying, let's just hope for some further regrowth as a bonus! With the benefits of finasteride exhausted though, I think you're going to need the minoxidil to accomplish that, and I'd take a serious look at topical spironolactone because you'll still want all the androgen protection you can get. (Fluridil is another option but very costly and a major PITA, and less well-accepted than finasteride and even spironolactone, still maybe worth a look). Glad you're sticking around, keep us posted!

 

[JolDee]

Went to my dermatologist today and got the go-ahead to begin Minoxidil. I was going to do it anyways, but for me having a doctor tell me its alright puts me at ease like nothing else. Interestingly, ketoconazole was not recommended as it is designed to target sebum production (or something to that effect) - yet in my readings that 'sebum' production is exactly what it's being used to prevent (as it contains some amount of DHT).

My first minoxidil treatment was about 20 minutes ago.

It's hard to imagine that I've just started something that I'll be doing twice a day for at least the next 5 years. My dermatologist has been on both Propecia and Minoxidil for 13 years, and in his experience, he's never heard of minoxidil actually losing efficacy after 4/5 years.

The treatment was easier than expected but required much more solution than was recommended. It's night-time so I used the Kirkland minoxidil liquid which is applied with a dropper. As soon as I received the Rogaine foam and Kirkland liquid I immediately could tell that I would be using it at twice the advertised rate. Kirkland recommends that I use 1ml of liquid per application, even dabbing I could not properly cover 1/2 of my affected area. I still have a fair amount of hair on my head and the application is difficult even with distinct parts combed in to my hair. I ended up using 2.25-2.5ml, no doubt I will improve slightly in my technique but overall I'd say it was just the right amount. I was able to almost fully cover the top of my head (the entire affected area + proper focus on hairlines). In future, I will allow my hair to dry a bit longer (it was damp but my scalp was dry) so that I can better feel my scalp when massaging in the solution.

Tomorrow I start with the foam, and though I've yet to fully read the instructions - I believe that it may actually be more difficult to apply than the liquid dropper (which allowed me to apply the solution through the hair, directly on to the scalp). 1/2 of a tiny capful? We shall see!

 

[ivangennaro]

Hair looking great man. Decent density. The temple area is the only area that you should be worried about.

 

[JolDee]

Still sticking with it

Method
I'm nearly out of the Rogaine foam at this point. I've come to appreciate the foam more, but it's not cost effective - especially the way I use it. My method has developed for applying both the foam and minoxidil dropper: Rather than parting my hair in sections (a process that is tedious and time consuming. I've opted to simply thoroughly towel dry my hair and then comb it straight back. Then I run the tip of the dropper or foam can from the front to back, applying as I go. I find that this *seems* to be nearly as effective as the parting method and it literally takes 1/4 of the time. With the dropper, I use the same amount of liquid (2-2.5 ml). With the foam can, I'm probably using two to three times as much because it is very difficult to control the flow of foam. Has anyone else used this method? I don't want to compromise the efficacy of the minoxidil, but I consider this to be a fair trade off given how much faster and easier it is to apply.

I've been keeping up with ketaconazole shampoo 1% (Regenepure DR). I use it about every 3 days, I find it tangles my hair a great deal and I avoid putting any conditioner on afterwards to avoid interfering with it's actions. Thankfully, it is lasting much longer than I had anticipated. I still have maybe 2/3 of the bottle left.

Progress
As expected, I've definitely been going through some shedding since starting the minoxidil treatment. Which has made my hair appear ever so slightly thinner at the front. However, at the same time I'm seeing lots of short hairs that appear to be growing in... When I pull my hairline to the side, as I have done in my previous pictures that is especially when I see them poking up through my longer hairs. Some are quite light and blonde and others are darker. I'm very encouraged by this and will continue to monitor them. As far as my temples go, all I have is the very fine fuzz which is natural in that area anyways - it's very rare if not unheard of to see slick bald grow back so I wasn't holding out too much hope for this area. Instead, I just want to ensure that it doesn't recede further.

I have been developing little 'bumps' on my forehead and around my hairline. I've read of this happening before... It's not really acne, but if anything it looks more like pores that have become clogged/raised - possibly from the liquid minoxidil's ingredients. I'm still learning to avoid drips of minoxidil from running down my forehead. It's difficult to avoid given that I apply to my hairline and also because my A/C is broken at the moment - living in a hot humid climate means that I'll sweat and the minoxidil is carried with it.

I'll take some pictures when I get a moment, I'd like to duplicate the conditions of the original pictures: absolutely nothing in my hair at the time, including minoxidil (who's foam and liquid forms give my hair more volume).

 

[Winter]

Those new, short hairs will eventually become terminal, trust me . It's a great feeling when your hairline gets stronger and fuller every day that passes by