Just starting out. Advice is welcome and invited

[arcangel]

I'm really freaked out about my hair loss, I suppose tha it's a phase everyone goes through, though. My feeling is that I'm too unattractive to not have hair, so I'm intent on two things - one, I'll fight this as much as I can, and two, if I have to be bald I'm going to look like The Rock or Vin Diesel, so the gym is now a massive priority. The problem with that is a recent knee injury, so I need to address that, first.

I'm moving to an anti-inflammatory diet, and I already purchased thymosin beta 4 peptide.

I intended to immediately start with an injectable cycle of A-stressin b but the rumor I've seen on a few sites is that suppliers are selling the totally ineffective Astressin-A peptide and labeling it as being Astressin-B. I'll wait a few months on that order, so that situation can get straightened out.

I don't have a primary care physician. I will get one and ask for a prescription for latanaprost at a high % in order to have it made by a compounding pharmacy.

For shampoo I'll alternate between nano and nizoral 2%, which I'm ordering in a moment.

ProMox 15% Lotion looks promising (EDIT: I'm not sure if there is any reason to start at 15% which is available from luxury barber.com, so I simply ordered a 3 month supply of 5% rogaine foam through the hairlosstalk store) and I'll also use spironolactone gel at night. Only ordered 1 jar since I've read complaints about the unbearable smell.

So my appoach is as follows:

(a) Get a damned doctor, get a physical, and finally/actually go to the gym I have been paying for since January 1st (Sweet Jesus, it's IRS day already?!) Losing my hair has been a wake up call to take care of myself.

(b) Go for an anti-inflammatory diet, aiming for low calories and low carbs to begin with, as I need to lose weight. The simplest way to do this seems to be to adopt - at least temporarily - a pescatarian/fish-based diet with no complex carbs/refined grains. It'll effectively be half vegetarian/half fish, and I imagine that I'll learn more about nutrition as time goes on.

(c) Agressive product use...

Intended to run Promox 15% Lotion every morning. Contains: Minoxidil 15%, Azelaic Acid 1.5%, Progesterone 0.25%, Tretinoin 0.025%, Hydrocortisone 0.1%, Finasteride 0.1% (EDIT: I'm not sure if there is any reason to start at the 15% available from luxury barber.com so I just ordered 3 months of 5% rogaine foam from hairlosstalk)

Nizoral 2% Shampoo, alternating with Nano Shampoo daily (ordered Nano shampoo from Amazon. FYI, bought Nizoral 2% online, no prescription needed for USA citizens, at inhousepharmacy.biz )

Spironolactone Gel at night (already ordered 1 jar from hairlosstalk )

(d) Peptides/Research Chemicals
Thymosin Beta 4 (I have some now) & Astressin-B (will consider buying after vendor fraud has been proven/dis-proven)

I think I've covered all the bases - "the big 3", plus Nano shampoo and peptides - now all I need is a scrip for a custom latanaprost compound. What else can I do?

 

[arcangel]

Thanks, looking into it. I intend to take the HairDX Finasteride Test to see if I'll respond/react to it... http://www.hairdx.com/FinasterideTestMale.aspx

Edit: Permanent side effects or side effects that may persist for months or years after stopping - even if you only take it for just ONE WEEK? There's a medical condition called "Post Finasteride Syndrome"???? WTF?! How can this stuff be legal? Screw that!
See http://propeciahelp.com/overview and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZsgCQ2- ... _embedded#!

 

[arcangel]

Wow, wish this site used google for the search function. I can find more info by going to google and running an advanced search on this domain than I can by running searches directly through the site.

I'm very interested in the experimental drugs I've found - CB-03-01 and RU58841. Didn't know about minoxidil's cardiac side effects so I'm hesitant to use it, might return it without using it since the Thymosin Beta 4 ("TB-500") I'll be taking could possibly potentiate the side effects.

 

[2020]

Wow, wish this site used google for the search function. I can find more info by going to google and running an advanced search on this domain than I can by running searches directly through the site.

I'm very interested in the experimental drugs I've found - CB-03-01 and RU58841. Didn't know about minoxidil's cardiac side effects so I'm hesitant to use it, might return it without using it since the Thymosin Beta 4 ("TB-500") I'll be taking could possibly potentiate the side effects.

thymosin beta what? Where did you get the idea that it somehow helps with male pattern baldness? :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

 

[arcangel]

Wow, wish this site used google for the search function. I can find more info by going to google and running an advanced search on this domain than I can by running searches directly through the site.

I'm very interested in the experimental drugs I've found - CB-03-01 and RU58841. Didn't know about minoxidil's cardiac side effects so I'm hesitant to use it, might return it without using it since the Thymosin Beta 4 ("TB-500") I'll be taking could possibly potentiate the side effects.

thymosin beta what? Where did you get the idea that it somehow helps with male pattern baldness? :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

http://www.fasebj.org/content/18/2/385.full#RFN1

I'm using it to heal injuries, Broscience(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broscience) (anecdotes) say it sometimes helps with male pattern baldness.
Since I have it already, might as well get a dermaroller and see how it plays out.

edit: It's a short-term project. The major side effect is that it is known to cause undetected, pre-existing tumors to grow, so while I am on it I want to take the precaution of eliminating the exposure of known carcinogens from my body and environment. So, based on things I've learned today, I won't use minoxidil until after I'm through with TB4

 

[discursively]

It really makes me sad seeing all these guys getting scared away from the one treatment that offers them any real long term hope. :shakehead:

Thanks, looking into it. I intend to take the HairDX Finasteride Test to see if I'll respond/react to it... http://www.hairdx.com/FinasterideTestMale.aspx

Edit: Permanent side effects or side effects that may persist for months or years after stopping - even if you only take it for just ONE WEEK? There's a medical condition called "Post Finasteride Syndrome"???? WTF?! How can this stuff be legal? Screw that!
See http://propeciahelp.com/overview and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZsgCQ2- ... _embedded#!

 

[arcangel]

It really makes me sad seeing all these guys getting scared away from the one treatment that offers them any real long term hope. :shakehead:

I'm confused. You're not only saying rogaine/spironolactone/keto won't work, but you're also saying the reported fina side effects are no big deal? Please elaborate.

 

[discursively]

Rogaine/spironolactone/Keto might (might) work, at least in the short term. Finasteride will work for many, many years, for most people. Side effects are reported in only a small percentage of people (a very small percentage more than placebo), and in all the RCT literature, reverse shortly after withdrawal of the treatment. Irreversible side-effects have never been reported in a RCT, to my knowledge. I am deeply skeptical that the reported irreversible sides are caused by finasteride, given the relatively high incidence of sexual dysfunction in the general population and the enormous number of people being treated with finasteride.

It really makes me sad seeing all these guys getting scared away from the one treatment that offers them any real long term hope. :shakehead:

I'm confused. You're not only saying rogaine/spironolactone/keto won't work, but you're also saying the reported fina side effects are no big deal? Please elaborate.

 

[israelite]

I'm on every experimental drug for hairloss!

 

[arcangel]

...Irreversible side-effects have never been reported in a RCT, to my knowledge. I am deeply skeptical that the reported irreversible sides are caused by finasteride, given the relatively high incidence of sexual dysfunction in the general population and the enormous number of people being treated with finasteride...

You are correct. I found no RCT's and I do think that this kind of research is necessary. The following are not randomized controlled trials but they are peer-reviewed studies that are alarming enough to make me take the anecdotal reports seriously. In all fairness I am not convinced that the side effects are irreversible but at this point in time due to the existence of possible alternatives, I personally am not willing to take the risks that are dubiously associated with the use of Fina.

Persistent Sexual Side Effects of Finasteride for Male Pattern Hair Loss

Michael S. Irwig MD1,*, Swapna Kolukula MB BS2
Article first published online: 18 MAR 2011

DOI: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2011.02255.x
The Journal of Sexual Medicine
Volume 8, Issue 6, pages 1747–1753, June 2011
(From wikipedia:"The Journal of Sexual Medicine is a peer-reviewed scientific journal published by Wiley-Blackwell. It is the official journal for the International Society for Sexual Medicine and for the International Society for the Study of Women’s Sexual Health.")

Keywords:
Erectile Dysfunction;Finasteride;Libido;5 Alpha Reductase Inhibitor;Propecia;Sexual Side Effects
ABSTRACT
Introduction.? Finasteride has been associated with reversible adverse sexual side effects in multiple randomized, controlled trials for the treatment of male pattern hair loss (MPHL). The Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency of the United Kingdom and the Swedish Medical Products Agency have both updated their patient information leaflets to include a statement that “persistence of erectile dysfunction after discontinuation of treatment with Propecia has been reported in post-marketing use.â€

Aim.? We sought to characterize the types and duration of persistent sexual side effects in otherwise healthy men who took finasteride for MPHL.

Methods.? We conducted standardized interviews with 71 otherwise healthy men aged 21–46 years who reported the new onset of sexual side effects associated with the temporal use of finasteride, in which the symptoms persisted for at least 3 months despite the discontinuation of finasteride.

Main Outcome Measures.? The types and duration of sexual dysfunction and the changes in perceived sexual frequency and sexual dysfunction score between pre- and post-finasteride use.

Results.? Subjects reported new-onset persistent sexual dysfunction associated with the use of finasteride: 94% developed low libido, 92% developed erectile dysfunction, 92% developed decreased arousal, and 69% developed problems with orgasm. The mean number of sexual episodes per month dropped and the total sexual dysfunction score increased for before and after finasteride use according to the Arizona Sexual Experience Scale (P < 0.0001 for both). The mean duration of finasteride use was 28 months and the mean duration of persistent sexual side effects was 40 months from the time of finasteride cessation to the interview date. Study limitations include a post hoc approach, selection bias, recall bias for before finasteride data, and no serum hormone levels.

Conclusion.? Physicians treating MPHL should discuss the potential risk of persistent sexual side effects associated with finasteride. Irwig MS and Kolukula S. Persistent sexual side effects of finasteride for male pattern hair loss. J Sex Med 2011;8:1747–1753.

J Sex Med. 2011 Mar;8(3):872-84. doi: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2010.02157.x. Epub 2010 Dec 22.
Adverse side effects of 5?-reductase inhibitors therapy: persistent diminished libido and erectile dysfunction and depression in a subset of patients.
Traish AM, Hassani J, Guay AT, Zitzmann M, Hansen ML.
Source
Department of Biochemistry, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, MA, USA.
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:
5?-reductase inhibitors (5?-RIs), finasteride and dutasteride, have been approved for treatment of lower urinary tract symptoms, due to benign prostatic hyperplasia, with marked clinical efficacy. Finasteride is also approved for treatment of hair loss (androgenetic alopecia). Although the adverse side effects of these agents are thought to be minimal, the magnitude of adverse effects on sexual function, gynecomastia, depression, and quality of life remains ill-defined.
AIM:
The goal of this review is to discuss 5?-RIs therapy, the potential persistent side effects, and the possible mechanisms responsible for these undesirable effects.
METHODS:
We examined data reported in various clinical studies from the available literature concerning the side effects of finasteride and dutasteride.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Data reported in the literature were reviewed and discussed. Results.? Prolonged adverse effects on sexual function such as erectile dysfunction and diminished libido are reported by a subset of men, raising the possibility of a causal relationship.
CONCLUSIONS:
We suggest discussion with patients on the potential sexual side effects of 5?-RIs before commencing therapy. Alternative therapies may be considered in the discussion, especially when treating androgenetic alopecia.
© 2010 International Society for Sexual Medicine.

J Sex Med. 2007 Nov;4(6):1708-12. Epub 2007 Jul 26.
Finasteride 5 mg and sexual side effects: how many of these are related to a nocebo phenomenon?
Mondaini N, Gontero P, Giubilei G, Lombardi G, Cai T, Gavazzi A, Bartoletti R.
Source
UO Urology, S Maria Annunziata Hospital, University of Florence, Florence, Italy. nicola.mondaini@unifi.it
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:
Sexual adverse experiences such as erectile dysfunction (ED), loss of libido, and ejaculation disorders have been consistent side effects of finasteride in a maximum percentage of 15% after 1 year of therapy. Such data could be seen as far from reality, if compared to a higher percentage that may be found in any common clinical practice.
AIM:
This study aims to explain the dichotomy between literature's data and clinical practice data.
METHODS:
One hundred twenty patients with a clinical diagnosis of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), sexually active and with an International Index of Erectile Function-erectile function (IIEF-EF) domain >/=25 were randomized to receive finasteride 5 mg concealed as an "X compound of proven efficacy for the treatment of BPH" for 1 year with (group 2) or without (group 1) counseling on the drug sexual side effect. The phrase used to inform group 2 patients was ". . . it may cause erectile dysfunction, decreased libido, problems of ejaculation but these are uncommon".
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
The estimation of side effect was conducted at 6 and 12 months using the male sexual function-4 (MSF-4 item) questionnaire and a self-administered questionnaire.
RESULTS:
One hundred seven patients completed the study. Group 2 patients (N = 55) reported a significant higher proportion of one or more sexual side effects as compared to group 1 (N = 52) (43.6% vs. 15.3%) (P = 0.03). The incidence of ED, decreased libido, and ejaculation disorders were 9.6, 7.7, and 5.7% for group 1, and 30.9, 23.6, and 16.3% for group 2, respectively (P = 0.02, P = 0.04, and P = 0.06).
CONCLUSION:
In the current study, blinded administration of finasteride was associated with a significantly higher proportion of sexual dysfunction in patients informed on sexual side effects (group 2) as compared to those in which the same information was omitted (group 1) (P = 0.03). A scenario similar to group 2 of the current study is likely to occur in clinical practice, where the patient is counseled by the physician and has access to the drug information sheet. The burden of this nocebo effect (an adverse side effect that is not a direct result of the specific pharmacological action of the drug) has to be taken into account when managing finasteride sexual side effects.
PMID: 17655657 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

From wikipedia - "In medicine, a nocebo reaction or response refers to harmful, unpleasant, or undesirable effects a subject manifests after receiving an inert dummy drug or placebo. Nocebo responses are not chemically generated and are due only to the subject's pessimistic belief and expectation that the inert drug will produce negative consequences.
In these cases, there is no "real" drug involved, but the actual negative consequences of the administration of the inert drug, which may be physiological, behavioural, emotional, and/or cognitive, are nonetheless real."

 

[arcangel]

I'm on every experimental drug for hairloss!

Which ones? What are your results like and what do you recommend?
I'm considering using a derma roller and several experimental peptides with good anecdotal reports (broscience FTW!), in lieu of finasteride.

 

[israelite]

I'm on every experimental drug for hairloss!

Which ones? What are your results like and what do you recommend?
I'm considering using a derma roller and several experimental peptides with good anecdotal reports (broscience FTW!), in lieu of finasteride.

cb-03-01, ahk copper complex, myristate rum, asc j9, proxiphen

 

[discursively]

Alas, in the ordinary sense of 'alternatives', there are no alternatives to finasteride. Simple: nothing has been shown, or even remotely close to shown, to work nearly as well.

Anyway, thanks for directing me to these studies. My feeling is that the nocebo study is particularly salient.

Best of luck.

 

[israelite]

phto with glasses is before any treatment. golub photo is 7 months into finn and the third phto was 3 weeks ago approx. i will delete phtos i just want to show u alternative treatments work

 

[arcangel]

phto with glasses is before any treatment. golub photo is 7 months into finn and the third phto was 3 weeks ago approx. i will delete phtos i just want to show u alternative treatments work

What photos? I don't see any, anywhere.

 

[israelite]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=74094

latisse,RejuvePlex,ascj9,dutasteride,finasteride,proxiphen,myistate rum,CB-03-01 , AHK-Cu peptide-copper complex, rogaine foam, revita shampoo, regenepure dr.,n2 shampoo sweet sunnah shampoo, apple cider,musk root,swanson hair revitaling formula,msm garlic pills, N-AcetylCysteine, buried treasure hair, L arginine & Lornithine, Silica complex, glutathione, blck caster oil,aloe vera, almond oil, parachute ayur vedic hair

 

[arcangel]

@Israelite those photos did not convince me that all that effort is worthwhile. Was your hairline starting to recede?

Edit - just read your thread on cb0301 and id like to know where you order it from, so I'm pm'ing you.

 

[israelite]

@Israelite those photos did not convince me that all that effort is worthwhile. Was your hairline starting to recede?

Edit - just read your thread on cb0301 and id like to know where you order it from, so I'm pm'ing you.

yes my hairline was getting bad. in fact the pic w/ the glasses shows a nw2. my hairline today is Norwood 1.5.

 

[arcangel]

@Israelite those photos did not convince me that all that effort is worthwhile. Was your hairline starting to recede?

Edit - just read your thread on cb0301 and id like to know where you order it from, so I'm pm'ing you.

yes my hairline was getting bad. in fact the pic w/ the glasses shows a nw2. my hairline today is Norwood 1.5.

I don't see any pics in many of your posts that refer to one. For example, I see no photo with glasses anywhere.

 

[arcangel]

Get on finasteride b...b..bro

Are you on it?