l arginine and l lysine dosages

[Leroy La Qua]

I have recently begun taking L arginine (750 grams three times daily) to combat propecia sides, this has been working a treat however i have recently noticed some sides from the arginine namely rough rubbery skin on the knuckles of my hands. I have read that this is a common enough effect and that people often take l lysine in addition to the arginine to offset this effect. I am curious as to what dosages i should take of these two supplements?

 

[Thinning]

You might want to try AAKG instead of the L-Form of Arginine. Its more bio-available so you dont have to run as much dose.

I dont know about the L-Lysine, sorry just wanted to add that fact.

 

[CCS]

http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductsList ... s&cid=aakg


Hey, guys, get the powdered one and take 1-2 grams per day, spread out with meals.

This is arginine bonded to a molicule like glutamic acid, which can take amonia out of the blood and become glutamine. I should be absorbed much better than L-arginine, and has the glutamine bonus for all you strenous weight lifters. That is over a 6 month supply for $20. It helps your body make NO to fight hair loss. I still eat lots of veggies, though, which also have more arginine than meat, proportionally at least.

 

[Harie]

Take Arginine Pyroglutamate instead of L-Arginine. It crosses the blood brain barrier much easier than regular L-Arginine. You'd have to take about 10 - 15G of L-Arginine to get the same absorbtion rate as taking 1.5G Arginine Pyroglutamate.

Or take Citrulline. Citrulline taken at the same dosages as L-Arginine have been shown to increase arginine levels more effectively than L-Arginine.

More Arginine = higher nitric oxide levels which also enhances Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor(VEGF) action. More VEGF action = more Angiogenesis which is the creation of blood vessels in the tissues.

Also, anyone taking Arginine or anything that boosts Nitric Oxide levels should take a SOD supplement. Nitric Oxide turns into a superoxide called Reactive Nitrogen Species.

 

[CCS]

i thought the NO is good for hair growth.


Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
Volume 93, Number 13; Pages: 6770-6774
Medical Sciences

Nitric oxide synthase generates superoxide and nitric oxide in arginine-depleted cells leading to peroxynitrite-mediated cellular injury
Yong Xia, Valina L. Dawson, Ted M. Dawson, Solomon H. Snyder, Jay L. Zweier

© 1996 by the National Academy of Sciences


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ABSTRACT Besides synthesizing nitric oxide (NO), purified neuronal NO synthase (nNOS) can produce superoxide (·O2-) at lower L-Arg concentrations. By using electron paramagnetic resonance spin-trapping techniques, we monitored NO and ·O2- formation in nNOS-transfected human kidney 293 cells. In control transfected cells, the Ca2+ ionophore A23187 triggered NO generation but no ·O2- was seen. With cells in L-Arg-free medium, we observed ·O2- formation that increased as the cytosolic L-Arg levels decreased, while NO generation declined. ·O2- formation was virtually abolished by the specific NOS blocker, N-nitro-L-arginine methyl ester (L-NAME). Nitrotyrosine, a specific nitration product of peroxynitrite, accumulated in L-Arg-depleted cells but not in control cells. Activation by A23187 was cytotoxic to L-Arg-depleted, but not to control cells, with marked lactate dehydrogenase release. The cytotoxicity was largely prevented by either superoxide dismutase or L-NAME. Thus, with reduced L-Arg availability NOS elicits cytotoxicity by generating ·O2- and NO that interact to form the potent oxidant peroxynitrite. Regulating arginine levels may provide a therapeutic approach to disorders involving ·O2-/NO-mediated cellular injury.

 

[Harie]

NO is definitely good for hair growth. I've seen a few posts of people noticing hair growth when supplementing NO.

More about RNS:

"The fact is, Nitric Oxide, when combined with various metabolic by-products, such as superoxide, form very nasty radicals called Reactive Nitrogen Species, or RNS. RNS such as Nitrite and Peroxynitrate have been shown to trigger the death of healthy cells while increasing blood supply to cancerous cells. Lipid peroxidation from Reactive Nitrogen Species in brain and body tissues has been shown to promote atherosclerosis. Damage to the integrity of our DNA by RNS leads to a whole host of problems from mutations to cardiovascular disease, to the actual aging process itself! Finally, it has been hypothesized that the actions of RNS in penile tissue can eventually lead to age-related erectile dysfunction. Despite Nitric Oxide being an essential molecule for erection, its harmful metabolites can induce impotence. "

Taken from http://www.netrition.com/scivation_noxidant_page.html

 

[CCS]

would grape seed extract, berries, and green tea sole this problem?

 

[Harie]

You could just take a Superoxide Dismutase supplement. SOD is an antioxidant that mainly neutralizes Superoxide free radicals. It would be cheaper/month than taking GSE & GTE.

Cheapest SOD I've found is http://www.vitacost.com/SourceNaturalsS ... eDismutase

Now I have more questions though. Like, which product, AAKG, AEE, Citrulline Malate, or Arginine Pyroglutamate increases NO levels the most? AEE is out for me because it's so expensive.

Guess I'll have to do some research.

 

[Harie]

From the few posts on Bodybuilding.com that talked about AAKG, APG, CM the general consensus (from knowledgeable posters) was:
Best to worst

Arginine Pyroglutamate
Citrulline Malate & AAKG (basically tied)
L-Arginine - this stuff is worthless to take unless you like taking 10 - 20g/day.

$$ wise, Citrulline or AAKG are your best values.

AAKG & Citrulline traded places depending on who was posting. But Arginine Pyroglutamate was on top for anyone that mentioned it.

Basic consensus was that AAKG was better for pumps, but Citrulline was better for ATP & endurance etc. I know, it doesn't relate to hair.

I didn't look for Arginine Ethyl Ester since it's very expensive stuff.

 

[CCS]

so we are going on the body builders saying what they think made them stronger. I don't feel to good about that. i'd trust a nutritionist more on this.

 

[Harie]

I didn't care about what they thought made them stronger. I was only wanting to know which was absorbed better.

Their posts confirmed my suspicions, APG is more potent, which I took to mean that it was absorbed better. APG is expensive stuff though, 2x/month more than CM or AAKG.

 

[CCS]

so is that SOD contain stuff not in green tee or pomagranits or vitamin E? i mean is it just a combo of anti-oxidants, or does it have something special?

 

[Harie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superoxide_dismutase

Superoxide Dismutase is just a class of enzymes.

My favorite line of the article:

"SOD is used in cosmetic products to reduce free radical damage to skin, for example to reduce fibrosis following radiation for breast cancer"

Green Tea Extract does boost SOD though.

 

[CCS]

women have been putting it on their faces for years, and mine looks aged because I have not? I wonder what kind of women's products I can rub into my face to fight aging.

 

[CCS]

according to what I cut and pasted from DrProctor.com, super oxide is produced when your body has low arginine levels, but NO is produced when your body has higher arginine levels. So i think taking the arginine is like taking an anti-oxidant in that respect. Furthermore, i plant to get my anti-oxidiants from food. I think i will just take 2g of AAKG per day.

and if I eat enough vegetables, I will get arginine from them too, and anti-oxidants.