Hey guys. I've been lurking here for over a year now and I have decided to make an account so I can finally post a bunch of questions that I couldn't quite wrap my head around. Feel free to chime in if you have any insight to any of the following topics. I didn't want to blow up the research section with 5 different threads so forgive me if this is all over the place.
For context, I am in my early 20s with thinning on my temples. I have tried finasteride for under a week but stopped due to sides. I want to stay away from any current/future treatments that effect my serum hormone levels. With that in mind, here are the topics I'm looking to gather thoughts on.
1) CB-03-01 Efficacy -- I'm concerned CB might be too weak. I've read through the current community thread and saw a few people currently trying it, along with a few threads dating back to a few years ago where people seemed to be going through the same battle of selecting vehicles/concentrations/suppliers that those of you in the current CB thread are fighting now. Fast forward a few years into the future to today and none of them seemed to have stuck with it, probably for a reason. I struggle to find anyone that has posted substantial results from it. So here's my theory. Everyone who I've read try it is either using a bad vehicle, didn't stick with it long enough (due to price), or didn't apply it at the optimal 7.5% BID (also due to price). The few people who have claimed maintenance/success/slight regrowth have no posted pictures and I struggle to believe what I can't see. If I'm wrong about this, then my next theory is probably true. CB is just really weak, which would explain the loss in efficacy between 6-12 months in the Cassiopea phase 2 clinical trials. So to summarize, can anyone link me to people actually getting results from CB, or confirm/deny my previous 2 theories?
2) CB-03-01 Research Chemical -- Given my concerns with efficacy, I'd still like to try something like 4% BID of CB-03-01 applied only at my hairline, which is where I am thinning, rather than my whole scalp to reduce the outrageous cost. Is this a good idea? As far as purchasing goes, is Kane the best/cheapest/purist seller, or where should I be buying from that ships to the USA? Also, what is the general consensus on a vehicle? I read that CB-03-01 is hydrophobic, and a lot of the vehicles I see posted on here include some amounts of water in them. Leading me to believe that we still haven't reached an agreement on a standard vehicle we can all use. Also, would needling used in conjunction with CB be a good idea? I believe that CB turns into a metabolite once it hits the bloodstream, so if there is no systemic effects of too much absorption, would applying CB directly after needling be a good/bad? Or even 0.5mm needling every day to ensure absorption be effective?
3) Microneedling Only -- I know there is a Chinese study showing (minoxidil + needling) > (needling) > (minoxidil) but I rarely find anecdotal reports that back this up. Almost everyone on here and r/tressless that needles is also using minoxidil or a cocktail of other topicals. Is there anyone that is having results on pure needling alone? I just ordered the Dr. Pen A6 and plan to try for myself, but I'd like to know if I'm wasting my time. I am too scared to try minoxidil due to the dependency and the shed. I could only find 1 or 2 people who posted actual pictures of regrowth on needling alone, and the few other who claim success never post pictures to back up their claims. So, what is the consensus on needling without topicals? If anyone can post pictures of actual documented results that isn't just different angles/lighting, that would be great.
4) Zix -- The only person I've seen with any type of success on this is @worm, and as far as I could tell, he hasn't posted any pictures. I find it crazy that someone can regrow/maintain for that many years on just some topical zinc. Chances are he wasn't going to continue balding regardless? I don't know. Part of me just wants to try Zix because it's so cheap but I know too much zinc can be bad for hair, and I also don't want to waste my time. So are there any other users that can recommend the use of Zix? There are lots of post in his thread of people starting treatment and ordering the ingredients, but no one seems to really follow up. So, is Zix a waste of time? Also, the more I research topical zinc the more I run into things like lithium chloride, acetic acid, saw palemento, pumpkin seed oil, ext.. Are there any natural compounds that we can agree actually work?
5) Future Treatments -- What treatment are you most hopeful for in the next few years? For me, it was CB-03-01. But the latest trial data has me pretty discouraged. I'm curious about Sammued and wish I had more info on that. I remember reading somewhere that the results that were posted were pretty underwhelming though. Replicel also had some underwhelming results from their saftey study if I recall correctly. Tsuji seems really awesome in theory, but have they reported anything about human trials yet? And the cost he quoted is pretty steep regardless. I simply don't have $300K in the bank or a Japaneese citizenship so I don't know if that would ever be realistic in my lifetime. It could lead to some really cool stuff though. Follica and their needling device seem to at least be realistic, compared to some of the other high-risk companies. It is scary that their patent covers up to 5mm though, which seems inasnely deep and their talks about trying to reduce scaring have me a little worried. Hopefully whatever is in their R.A.I.N compound is effective and doesn't need it's own set of clinical trials, otherwise we will be waiting on that treatment for a while. I hear the JAK and WNT stuff is really great for AA, but not so much for Androgenetic Alopecia. The only other potential hope is FOL-005, but it seems like they are way behind everyone else. I'm kind of lost here. I keep reading over the same posts/data each day trying to find what something I missed. I want something to get excited about. But I'm starting to struggle, so maybe one of you can help me out. What treatment would you guys bet on to come out as successful, and when do you suspect the release would be?
*******
Bonus Question: Back when I just quit finasteride, I was considering dosing it at 0.25mg a day and seeing if I still got side effects. After learning about the dosing curve of finasteride, and how 0.04mg of finasteride inhibits something like 60% of DHT, I ditched the idea. However, I did read a few people microdosing at like 0.02mg a day by grinding up the pill in an ethanol solution and squirting it into their mouth. Anyway, what is everyone's thoughts on this? I'm conflicted, but that's partially because I don't think I ever understood the dosing curve right. Because if 1mg = 5mg in terms of DHT serum levels, why put BPH patients on 5mg instead of 1mg? Also explored making a DIY topical finasteride solution but since it will end up going systemic, I didn't see the point. I put this as a bonus question because regardless of the answer, I really don't think I will ever touch finasteride again. But if someone feels pretty strongly about it I would love to hear you out.
For context, I am in my early 20s with thinning on my temples. I have tried finasteride for under a week but stopped due to sides. I want to stay away from any current/future treatments that effect my serum hormone levels. With that in mind, here are the topics I'm looking to gather thoughts on.
====================
1) CB-03-01 Efficacy -- I'm concerned CB might be too weak. I've read through the current community thread and saw a few people currently trying it, along with a few threads dating back to a few years ago where people seemed to be going through the same battle of selecting vehicles/concentrations/suppliers that those of you in the current CB thread are fighting now. Fast forward a few years into the future to today and none of them seemed to have stuck with it, probably for a reason. I struggle to find anyone that has posted substantial results from it. So here's my theory. Everyone who I've read try it is either using a bad vehicle, didn't stick with it long enough (due to price), or didn't apply it at the optimal 7.5% BID (also due to price). The few people who have claimed maintenance/success/slight regrowth have no posted pictures and I struggle to believe what I can't see. If I'm wrong about this, then my next theory is probably true. CB is just really weak, which would explain the loss in efficacy between 6-12 months in the Cassiopea phase 2 clinical trials. So to summarize, can anyone link me to people actually getting results from CB, or confirm/deny my previous 2 theories?
2) CB-03-01 Research Chemical -- Given my concerns with efficacy, I'd still like to try something like 4% BID of CB-03-01 applied only at my hairline, which is where I am thinning, rather than my whole scalp to reduce the outrageous cost. Is this a good idea? As far as purchasing goes, is Kane the best/cheapest/purist seller, or where should I be buying from that ships to the USA? Also, what is the general consensus on a vehicle? I read that CB-03-01 is hydrophobic, and a lot of the vehicles I see posted on here include some amounts of water in them. Leading me to believe that we still haven't reached an agreement on a standard vehicle we can all use. Also, would needling used in conjunction with CB be a good idea? I believe that CB turns into a metabolite once it hits the bloodstream, so if there is no systemic effects of too much absorption, would applying CB directly after needling be a good/bad? Or even 0.5mm needling every day to ensure absorption be effective?
3) Microneedling Only -- I know there is a Chinese study showing (minoxidil + needling) > (needling) > (minoxidil) but I rarely find anecdotal reports that back this up. Almost everyone on here and r/tressless that needles is also using minoxidil or a cocktail of other topicals. Is there anyone that is having results on pure needling alone? I just ordered the Dr. Pen A6 and plan to try for myself, but I'd like to know if I'm wasting my time. I am too scared to try minoxidil due to the dependency and the shed. I could only find 1 or 2 people who posted actual pictures of regrowth on needling alone, and the few other who claim success never post pictures to back up their claims. So, what is the consensus on needling without topicals? If anyone can post pictures of actual documented results that isn't just different angles/lighting, that would be great.
4) Zix -- The only person I've seen with any type of success on this is @worm, and as far as I could tell, he hasn't posted any pictures. I find it crazy that someone can regrow/maintain for that many years on just some topical zinc. Chances are he wasn't going to continue balding regardless? I don't know. Part of me just wants to try Zix because it's so cheap but I know too much zinc can be bad for hair, and I also don't want to waste my time. So are there any other users that can recommend the use of Zix? There are lots of post in his thread of people starting treatment and ordering the ingredients, but no one seems to really follow up. So, is Zix a waste of time? Also, the more I research topical zinc the more I run into things like lithium chloride, acetic acid, saw palemento, pumpkin seed oil, ext.. Are there any natural compounds that we can agree actually work?
5) Future Treatments -- What treatment are you most hopeful for in the next few years? For me, it was CB-03-01. But the latest trial data has me pretty discouraged. I'm curious about Sammued and wish I had more info on that. I remember reading somewhere that the results that were posted were pretty underwhelming though. Replicel also had some underwhelming results from their saftey study if I recall correctly. Tsuji seems really awesome in theory, but have they reported anything about human trials yet? And the cost he quoted is pretty steep regardless. I simply don't have $300K in the bank or a Japaneese citizenship so I don't know if that would ever be realistic in my lifetime. It could lead to some really cool stuff though. Follica and their needling device seem to at least be realistic, compared to some of the other high-risk companies. It is scary that their patent covers up to 5mm though, which seems inasnely deep and their talks about trying to reduce scaring have me a little worried. Hopefully whatever is in their R.A.I.N compound is effective and doesn't need it's own set of clinical trials, otherwise we will be waiting on that treatment for a while. I hear the JAK and WNT stuff is really great for AA, but not so much for Androgenetic Alopecia. The only other potential hope is FOL-005, but it seems like they are way behind everyone else. I'm kind of lost here. I keep reading over the same posts/data each day trying to find what something I missed. I want something to get excited about. But I'm starting to struggle, so maybe one of you can help me out. What treatment would you guys bet on to come out as successful, and when do you suspect the release would be?
*******
Bonus Question: Back when I just quit finasteride, I was considering dosing it at 0.25mg a day and seeing if I still got side effects. After learning about the dosing curve of finasteride, and how 0.04mg of finasteride inhibits something like 60% of DHT, I ditched the idea. However, I did read a few people microdosing at like 0.02mg a day by grinding up the pill in an ethanol solution and squirting it into their mouth. Anyway, what is everyone's thoughts on this? I'm conflicted, but that's partially because I don't think I ever understood the dosing curve right. Because if 1mg = 5mg in terms of DHT serum levels, why put BPH patients on 5mg instead of 1mg? Also explored making a DIY topical finasteride solution but since it will end up going systemic, I didn't see the point. I put this as a bonus question because regardless of the answer, I really don't think I will ever touch finasteride again. But if someone feels pretty strongly about it I would love to hear you out.