male pattern baldness is BS and everyone needs to listen. Pics included

[Magz]

This was my original thread:


http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...rs-Old-was-in-denial-shaved-my-head-yesterday


Here are the progress pics:

(Redacted due to image limit. NOt that important since these photos show I was better than I was in the bottom ones. just goes to show you male pattern baldness can occur quickly).


The very start of everything going down hill, about 5 months ago. I did not post the above thread at this time. Notice how my hairloss isn't as bad as the next segment, which was about 4 months ago:








Here is 1 month later. My hairloss was extremely rapid. If you already read my previous thread, this was before I went to the dermatologist and was diagnosed as male pattern baldness. The entire point of this thread is to prove that male pattern baldness is bull ****. My above thread goes through some of the issues with the current theory.


Here is 1 month later than the above images:




(Edit: there's some other attached images. Believe it or not, the ones that look better than the above, were taken 5 months ago. The one that was taken that looks 100 * better, was taken today. The progress pics are in the link. The image upload thing messed up all the chronology)



Much worse. You can see how much of my hair is just gone. There's hair missing everywhere.


This was when I was diagnosed with male pattern baldness. There was a lot of pain and it hurt to actually touch my hair. My dermatologist believed that I was insane when I told him it couldn't be male pattern baldness. I heard him speak to his assistant outside the door and tell her he didn't see anything. I was complaining of redness, irritation, and pain. He didn't see the redness. I'm almost positive in the above photos you can see that my scalp is red. This is common in people who experience male pattern baldness rapidly.


Now, in my above thread, I made a lot of claims. I currently do take propecia 10mg daily, but I stopped using Rogain 5% 2 months ago. In all honestly, I believe my above claims were correct. I take propecia currently, because the truth is that the side effects of male pattern baldness (aka hair loss over the male pattern baldness region) IS caused by DHT accumulation in the scalp. That theory though does not explain WHY the DHT is accumulating in that region.
Tom Hagarty, who developed his theory in parallel to mine, is absolutely correct. The DHT accumulation is caused by the galea theory of male pattern baldness. This is supported by current evidence and previous evidence. Take a look at my above thread and see the links. IT should explain everything, and if you have any questions ,I'm happy to answer them. I am not selling anything, but I am 100% sure that male pattern baldness is bull **** and preventable. No one cares about male hair loss. Its a huge profit margin for Pharma. At this point, I honestly believe I know more about male pattern baldness than the dermatologist that I went to. And he didn't give one ****.


Here is my current progress. Notice how much progress there is. This is an ATYPICAL relapse from male pattern baldness, but the truth is, I'm almost positive that as long as your hair isn't atrophied to the point where the follicle is dead, you can achieve similar result. My routine is below after the images:

Damn, it wont' let me upload more photos of the success. I'm deleting the first images that were 5 months ago. They're not as important anyways, since it just shows how quickly I got worse.

Still wont' let me add more images even though I deleted some. Here's the success link. These were taken today, about 10 minutes ago:

http://imgur.com/pDvCNso,0M5XCAh,bIzGrj9,A9taJ01,UhUEDhJ#0

You can flip through those photos. By that I mean its more than 1 photo. Above the first image you should see the next previous buttons, and another list of first, second, all the way to 5th image. Should be easy to compare both before and afters. It really is astounding. If not, send me a message and I'll reupload them, or if an admin can help me upload more photos, that would be great.

Anyways, why do I take propecia? That **** is poison, but the truth is that DHT can cause damage to the vascular systems of your hair on top of the galea. This is because there is no muscle there. In the "Safe zone" of male pattern baldness (the sides and back), there are muscles which absorb the DHT, and stronger vascular structures. It is not because that hair is DHT resistent genetically. That's honestly retarded to believe. All your hair has the same genetics, its a locale issue.

As soon as all my hair grows back, and if you saw the progress, you can literally see all my hair growing back, I will stop taking propecia and get my scalp DHT levels checked monthly.

So how to keep DHT levels in the scalp low? Here's my routine:

1) If you take creatine, stop. Creatine is awesome for you, and there are tons of benefits (like heart disease), but it is believed to cause DHT levels to rise dramatically. DHT to T ration becomes 12:1. This is because creatine causes your cells to absorb more water. This causes vascular structures around the area to shrink in diameter, causing oxygen levels to be decreased. DHT thrives in low oxygen evironments, since 5-alpha reductase favors T absorbtion in low oxygen environments. This is supported by the Japanese study done in the early 90s that I linked to in my first post. Oxygen is 36% less on average in male pattern baldness subjects as opposed to non-male pattern baldness subjects.

2) You need to do the scalp exercises. The botox study (linked in the previous post) proves that male pattern baldness has something to do with vascular structures in the scalp being altered, and that the reason for this change is the muscles that are connected to the scalp. You can argue all day, but the truth is that there is no way botox would have any affect, especially not an overwhelming affect on Norwood 5's, if it didn't have something to do with the musculature around the head. After learning about male pattern baldness, I started doing heavy "scalp exercises." I know you guys scoff, but its true, and you can see the results in 4 months. There is no way I should have had this response. Scalp exercises help the muscles become more stretched, relaxed, and increase blood flow. Infact, I don't only do scalp exercises anymore. believe it or not, wrinkles are caused by muscles that become semi-permanently contracted (like crows feet around the eyes). Botox gets rid of wrinkles because it helps the muscle become relaxed.

Guess what though; you can help your muscles become more relaxed by exercising them. Think about it. People go lift weights for the entire body, except for their face and head and neck. I started doing face yoga, and the results on my skin and facial muscles is astounding. So now I do scalp exercises every day all the time (I'm a programmer, so I just do it while I program), and I do face exercises. You should to. It just makes sense. Boxers work their jaws because it makes sense. You need to work out your scalp because IT MAKES SENSE.

3) I take propecia 1 mg daily, but I am going to stop as soon as the significant fuzz becomes thicker (you can see it in my progress pics. These white hairs actually do turn darker. I've noticed them turn darker over time and they are continuing to do so). You need to take propecia, especially if your male pattern baldness is extremely bad, because DHT does cause damage to the hair follicle. From some studies I've read, it might be true that DHT causes damage to the micro-capillaries that feed the follicle. It might be due to an auto-immune response from the body, and that's why some people experience pain and redness (like me, you can see the redness in the before pictures), and its why immunio-suppressants help male pattern baldness victims grow back some hair. To repair these micro-capilaries, its not a bad idea to just nuke your DHT for awhile, do the scalp exercises (which stimulates VEGF production that causes vascular structures to be repaired and created while reducing DHT levels since muscle use corresponds to DHT absorption in muscle), and just whether the effects for a year. The stuffs poison, but just keep a check on your symptoms. I've noticed many, but at least it will allow my vascular structures to repair in the meantime, so that I can eventually stop taking it.

Routine:

1 )1mg propecia daily in the morning
2) Use rosemary oil after my shampoo (Regenepure, check it out, helps reduce DHT levels). Rosemary oil mimics the NO molecule apparently. This NO molecule is apparently why Rogain works (these NO channels help widen vascular structures).
3) Scalp exercises. If you don't know what they are, I can explain them to you. Its very easy and some people call it the alternation theory
4) Touch your hair. Play with your hair and massage your head. I do this when I get home from work. When I'm watching TV, I will rigoriously rub my head and squeeze the skin while doing the scalp exercises. My muscles in my head are really strong now, and the entire top of my head moves. I can describe this more if you guys want.

I do not use Rogain anymore. It works for me, I'm sure, but I wanted to try and not use chemical products to prove my above points. It will help your hair grow faster, but it can also mask whether or not you're making natural changes that are improving your situation. That's what I'm striving for: a natural way to get rid of male pattern baldness. I also have a chemical way I believe woudl work, but I do not know anyone who knows a significant amount about liposomes (which are a drug delivery method. You can buy VEGF165 and create a vector of it for inject to allow your micro-capillaries to be reproduced). If I knew someone who knew how to create the right vector (you can get a custom vector created online pretty cheaply if you know exactly what you need), then I would have a more natural way of solving hairloss. I'm getting off topic, but that's a last resort, and I don't think its necessary for me, but I'm pretty sure for people who are really advanced in their male pattern baldness, this would help them get an entire leg up on the damage done to their micro-vascular sturctures.

Say what you want, but you can't argue with the above results. I may sound crazy, but you can check the meta data in the images to see that in November, I took the first pictures, and right now, Its almost like my male pattern baldness is completely gone.

Feel free to ask questions ,but know that male pattern baldness is debunked at this point as far as I'm concerned.

If you guys want more pictures, I can add better ones with more lighting from either before or after (I logged results really well since I had a hunch male pattern baldness was bs).

Shout-out to reddit if you guys actually make it here.

 

[TD500]

Just skimmed

10mg propecia daily? Why such a high dose?
Just wanted you to clarify you said you will stop taking propecia once you achieve your desired results? Just to check the DHT levels or for good? I believe finasteride is for life unless you want to lose your hair or something better comes along.

 

[RoyD]

See I can understand how you feel now that you've grown back a lot of hair and feel that your theory is right. After using 1 mg dutasteride for a year and Minoxidil on and off for about 2 years now even I feel that this whole DHT/male pattern baldness theory is bull****. But you have to realize that there's been research, though very limited, done in this field which suggests otherwise. Anyways I've been using my body as a test subject for almost 2 years now with all the chemicals used topically and orally so I wouldn't mind trying out something new. To be honest I feel that what you're saying may be only 10% accurate or true and trust me I'm being very generous. If most of the other prominent guys at the forum read this they're just going to laugh at you.

So why don't you tell us more in detail about what your regimen is and what exercises you do and I can judge for myself. Maybe have a youtube video made or something if it's something complex.

P.S. BTW the fact that you use 10mg Propecia is just unbelievable and points to the fact that your theory might be Bull****. 10mg is just insane and asking for sterility. Thanks for the update though

 

[Magz]

My bad, I meant 1!!! 10 would be destroy me!

I believe finasteride is for life unless you want to lose your hair or something better comes along.

Its not. Don't skim. Read my previous post and my update and you'll know its only for life if you don't repair the vasculature of your head.

- - - Updated - - -

I made a mistake. It is 1mg.

Would you like to chat sometime? I'm pretty sure that more than 10% of what I"m saying is true, especially since my results in 4 months are better than they ever should have been. I made a hypothesis before I started, and it turns out by following my regime, seems to have worked for me.

The alteration method is the "exercises" that I do for my scalp:

1) Raise your eyebrows and hold for 10 seconds. You shoudl "squeeze the msucle".

2) Let go of the above squeeze, and pull your ears back. Hold for 10 seconds. Over time, you can actually feel your muscles pulling your ears close to your head. Let go and repeat.

I also vigorously move the blood around my scalp manually by squeezing and massaging.

If you feel what I"m saying isn't true, please provide a link which shows why the above science cannot be correct. In my opinion, the simple fact that botox works puts the final nail in the casket. There is no reason botox should have worked in 250+ cases if it had nothing to do with the muscles of the scalp.

 

[zdm632]

I think your results are from finasteride. If you want to prove your theory, we'll see after you stop finasteride for 6 months-1 year. I honestly doubt your hair will maintain just with scalp exercises.
But i don't think male pattern baldness can be cured just with scalp exercises.

And...i don't deny your results, but the pictures are not right done.
The before pictures-you have your hair wet?! and spiked up, and the photos are much closer to the head.
The after one- hair is dry and combed forward, and the distance from camera/lighting conditions are different.
You're right that DHT clogs the follicles and actually can cut blood flow to them, but i think only finasteride can solve this, by reducing DHT. If DHT remains high, what can do scalp exercises and blood flow improvement? It may even contribute for more DHT to get to the follicles.

It is not that simple, there is even an old study that showed that actually reducing blood flow in the scalp by messing with some arteries ligature lead to more hair growth. How would your theory explain that?
http://www.researchgate.net/publica...cia_the_ligature_of_the_arteries_of_the_scalp

 

[fullhead]

"Anyways, why do I take propecia? That **** is poison, but the truth is that DHT can cause damage to the vascular systems of your hair on top of the galea. This is because there is no muscle there. In the "Safe zone" of male pattern baldness (the sides and back), there are muscles which absorb the DHT, and stronger vascular structures. It is not because that hair is DHT resistent genetically. That's honestly retarded to believe. All your hair has the same genetics, its a locale issue."

Then why most people that have a hair transplant from the back of their head KEEP the hair transplanted?

 

[zdm632]

Then why most people that have a hair transplant from the back of their head KEEP the hair transplanted?

+1.
Honestly, we appreciate the help that @Magz wants to give us, but the truth is that male pattern baldness is not BS and is much more complex than just what he says.
In his case-what worked is finasteride alone, i think, he may be a very good responder and started it very fast , when the damage to the follicles was minimal.
The scalp exercises may help, but honestly, i think their contribution is marginal.

 

[Magz]

They will not give you a hair transplant unless you continue to take finasteride.

Look at joe rogan; he had hair transplants and they did end up dying after he stopped finasteride.

I'll respond more tomorrow, but honestly, you're an idiot if you envy my results and don't start the scalp exercises and massages. It doesn't hurt to try.

 

[fullhead]

They will not give you a hair transplant unless you continue to take finasteride.

Look at joe rogan; he had hair transplants and they did end up dying after he stopped finasteride.

I'll respond more tomorrow, but honestly, you're an idiot if you envy my results and don't start the scalp exercises and massages. It doesn't hurt to try.

We have a member on this forum that received a successful hair transplant without ever touching finasteride. And like him there are many others. Why did you call me an idiot? Did you realize I just demolished your whole theory?

I'm 99% sure your good results are from finasteride use. Let us know what happens when you quit it.

 

[zdm632]

They will not give you a hair transplant unless you continue to take finasteride.

Look at joe rogan; he had hair transplants and they did end up dying after he stopped finasteride.

I'll respond more tomorrow, but honestly, you're an idiot if you envy my results and don't start the scalp exercises and massages. It doesn't hurt to try.

Sorry, but you don't have any clue about hair transplant's. One must take finasteride after hair transplant in order for his existing, male pattern baldness-prone hair on top to maintain, because , you fill up some areas with transplant, but other areas which have hair at the moment of transplant can become bald in the future, and it will look funny. Transplanted hair never falls, this is a general fact, proven by tons of people who had that horrible plugs in the 80's-90's, some 25-35 years ago, and they would just love for them to fall off, cause they looks stupid, but guess what, the ****ty transplanted plugs are still there, still strong,35 years later and it's pretty sure they will be present also in their coffin.(sorry for this).
And please check your language, ok?
As i said, there is certain improvement, but the pictures are taken in very different conditions, so it MAY not be really that big difference, imo. Wet hair vs dry hair, different angle,different combing, different distance, light, everybody knows this factors can make the hell of a difference in thinner hair appearance.
You're just a very good finasteride responder. The rest is pure naivety, if you really think you found the cure for male pattern baldness, you simply think all those researchers who still struggle are idiots? Come on, you insult our intelligence...
OH, and at the point, been there, done that, i did this scalp exercises, there was no concludent help, it could have been some marginal benefit, but in no way were they a cure for my problem, so i sticked to meds.
But, i say this friendly to you, believe me, if you want your results to maintain long-term, you must keep using finasteride, otherwise the hair most probably will get worse. You can call me idiot now, but you'll remember i warned you.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

If most of the other prominent guys at the forum read this they're just going to laugh at you.

- - - Updated - - -

I would love to be proven wrong though. The only way to do it is to actually document your results with good pics and to be on no other treatments that can be responsible for your results. Usually when threads like this come up there are very few if any pics, or they never get updated. I expect this thread to be no different.

I would give this a try, but I am currently using urine therapy to try to cure my hair loss.

 

[Aceofspades]

Just thought Id share this, even though most of what hes saying cannot be proven while using a product like finasteride. Since we cant tell where the real results are coming from but the part about CREATINE AND DHT IS TRUE. SO HERE IS SOMETHING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIFT WEIGHTS AND DO USE CREATINE. THIS IS NOT MY DATA BUT FROM A SOURCE ONLINE.

Objective: This study investigated resting concentrations of selected androgens after 3 weeks of creatine supplementation in male rugby players. It was hypothesized that the ratio of dihydrotestosterone (DHT, a biologically more active androgen) to testosterone (T) would change with creatine supplementation.

Design: Double-blind placebo-controlled crossover study with a 6-week washout period.

Setting: Rugby Institute in South Africa.

Participants: College-aged rugby players (n = 20) volunteered for the study, which took place during the competitive season.

Interventions: Subjects loaded with creatine (25 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose) or placebo (50 g/day glucose) for 7 days followed by 14 days of maintenance (5 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose or 30 g/day glucose placebo).

Main Outcome Measures: Serum T and DHT were measured and ratio calculated at baseline and after 7 days and 21 days of creatine supplementation (or placebo). Body composition measurements were taken at each time point.

Results: After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).

Conclusions: Creatine supplementation may, in part, act through an increased rate of conversion of T to DHT. Further investigation is warranted as a result of the high frequency of individuals using creatine supplementation and the long-term safety of alterations in circulating androgen composition.

Statement of Clinical Relevance: Although creatine is a widely used ergogenic aid, the mechanisms of action are incompletely understood, particularly in relation to dihydrotestosterone, and therefore the long-term clinical safety cannot be guaranteed.

 

[shookwun]

If this theory was 100% accurate then no one would loose their temple points, which consequently has the biggest forehead muscles. The temporalis muscle along your temples, sides and points are constantly being pumped full of blood, and oxygen every day when you eat, think, twitch, and talk. Explain why hair still miniaturizes, followed by the temples, and points going right back to the ear.


temple points are typically the beginning signs of recession.

http://www.regrowshair.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/temple-hair transplant.jpg

 

[RoyD]

Even I don't really believe this. It sounds more silly to believe that muscles absorb DHT rather hair loss because of genetically prone hair. Since you've said that you use Finasteride, I'd like to see you quit it and then maintain your hair. A few years back there was this other theory that rubbing your fingernails together caused more blood to reach your scalp. In all honesty I just don't believe these theories. Not that I'm a big fan of the whole DHT theory also because despite being on 1 mg dutasteride for over a year I still continue to lose hair.
Anyways I'm not really making any progress atm but I might give your exercises a shot if I remember to do them on a daily basis. I'm always running my fingers through my hair when reading or studying anyways. How many times a day do you do this anyways? And do post better and more uniform pics next time.

 

[Wolf Pack]

Even I don't really believe this. It sounds more silly to believe that muscles absorb DHT rather hair loss because of genetically prone hair. Since you've said that you use Finasteride, I'd like to see you quit it and then maintain your hair. A few years back there was this other theory that rubbing your fingernails together caused more blood to reach your scalp. In all honesty I just don't believe these theories. Not that I'm a big fan of the whole DHT theory also because despite being on 1 mg dutasteride for over a year I still continue to lose hair.
Anyways I'm not really making any progress atm but I might give your exercises a shot if I remember to do them on a daily basis. I'm always running my fingers through my hair when reading or studying anyways. How many times a day do you do this anyways? And do post better and more uniform pics next time.

You have a hardcore regime Roy, what's your age and Norwood? Are you still losing hair?

 

[fullhead]

This guy is a lunatic and this whole thread is a joke.

 

[viet nom nom]

I stopped reading when I realized I had forgotten my tinfoil hat.