man boob question (guys with ripped muscles please respond)

[CCS]

I've been on finasteride two years, never had problems, and have been on dutasteride two months, with dutasteride every day with grapefruit the last month, and as of 3 days ago reduced my dose to once every 2-3 days with grapefruit.

When I flex my chest, my muscles flex and harden, but down by the nipple along the bottom of the chest, there is tissue that does not harden. It feels like it is maybe 1/3 inch (1cm) deeper than the skin above it, which feels 1/4 inch deep. It does not look bad, and is not tender, but I'm just wondering if I have the begining of man boobs, and how many guys can flex the part of their chest right under their nipples, to make that area hard. I don't remember if I was always like this or if it changed over time.

The soft area extends 1.5 inches to either side of the nipple and about 1/2 inch above and below them, on each one. When I flex in the mirror, I can see the big wrinkle become more obvious, whereas I can't see it when I'm not flexing.

Thanks.

 

[CCS]

I eat a lot of soy. Some say the photoestrogens work like estrogens, while others say they compete with estrogens but don't bind as strongly to the AR, so that they inhibit the estrogens a bit. Not sure which is true.

Just so you all know, the most believable reason I heard for why finasteride gives side effects is some of the testosterone that is not converted to DHT is instead converted to estrogen. This is especially bad for overweight guys who already have more estrogen to start with. I have a 31 inch waste at 5'8".

I also heard that DHT is not anabolic but is very androgenic. I don't know what androgenic means in this context, for guys over 25.

I just looked in the mirror again, and the small sag is noticeable even when I'm not flexing. Man boob or not, I need to fix that for cosmetic reasons. I heard grapeseed extract is an aromatase inhibitor, but the info came from a non-trustworthy site that also said estrogen is bad for hair.

 

[joseph49853]

I'm muscular/ripped. My gyno was unmistakable, as a saggy protrusion.... starting from a half inch in circumference around my areola to almost the nipple. It was also uncharacteristically different from the rest of my chest in tone and shape. And no, I never felt any actual soreness, pain, or discomfort.

As you've stated, some excess testosterone is converted to estrogen. To begin with some men already have more estrogen than others, some eat or drink foods that already have increased their estrogen count, some men are more predisposed to the effects of estrogen... etc.

I highly recommend overdosing on decline bench pressing to firm up you lower chest. That, and reduce your dosage. Both worked wonders for me.

And I personally would quit messing with grapefruit juice.

First of all, there's no way -- at least, with any real predictably -- to control the increased transport of any drug via grapefruit. You're simply not increasing dosage potency as much as inhibiting your bodies' own metabolism. Grapefruit will in fact compete with many drugs for liver enzymes, and win resoundingly. Yes, this can mean more of the drug enters your bloodstream. However, by lengthening the period of drug synthesis, you're also adding undue pressure and stress on your vital organs, including your liver. This is really bad news in the long run.

 

[Cassin]

 

[joseph49853]

Are those grapefruits?

 

[CCS]

yeah, maybe grapefruit will stop the liver from breaking down other stuff besides dutasteride. Like estrogen, testosterone, DHT, cholesterol. I'll stop eating it until I find out what enzymes it inhibits and what they break down. I'm just surprised there is no warning on grapefruit if it is that bad.

I also think while the phytoestrogens in soy keep estrogen from binding to receptors, too much soy can do its own binding. So I'm cutting back to 30g from 50g.

Also going to try loosing 5-10 pounds to see if it is just a little weight.

yeah, my nipples sound like they are starting the way yours did, but not as bad as yours got.

With dutasteride every three days I'm going to have one cheap regimen.

 

[person_123]

joseph: let me first state that i'm not insulting you. i'm just curious.

you say you developed gyno with no pain or symptoms. then you cut down on your finasteride and worked out like crazy and the gyno went away.

what i'm thinking is. isn't gyno extra "tissue" in the chest? so it can't be gotten rid of by working out. and tissue can't really just disapear because you decreased your amount of finasteride intake.

so what i'm thinking. is maybe, just maybe, the things you saw were just extra fat from "not" working out intensely. it may be because of finasteride, as finasteride has been known to cause weight gain. but are you sure it was gyno? and not just extra fat?

again, i mean this post in all sincerity.

also, what is the areolas?

 

[joseph49853]

joseph: let me first state that i'm not insulting you. i'm just curious.

you say you developed gyno with no pain or symptoms. then you cut down on your finasteride and worked out like crazy and the gyno went away.

what i'm thinking is. isn't gyno extra "tissue" in the chest? so it can't be gotten rid of by working out. and tissue can't really just disapear because you decreased your amount of finasteride intake.

so what i'm thinking. is maybe, just maybe, the things you saw were just extra fat from "not" working out intensely. it may be because of finasteride, as finasteride has been known to cause weight gain. but are you sure it was gyno? and not just extra fat?

again, i mean this post in all sincerity.

also, what is the areolas?

No problem. If you're inquisitive, and believe there's a question to be answered, feel free to ask.

There might be some suggestion of waxing and waining in the early stages. Or the symptoms can somewhat be reversed, or go into remission, without the presence of excess estrogen. Although, the longer the condition exists the harder to subdue any changes. I still have a tiny bit left, but nothing that makes me self-conscious.

It's hard to describe, a small portion of the chest (near the nipple) takes on a weird almost feminine shape. And unless you check religiously, or experience pain or discomfort, you might not realize the problem until it's too late.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly believe there's far less chance of gynecomastia on 1mg or even .5/.2 daily, as opposed to 5mg. I believe studies also have suggested this as well. There's one such study in the New England Journal of Medicine titled, "Gynecomastia and Breast Cancer during Finasteride Therapy." You'll need a subscription to view this article. http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/335/11/823

Oh, the aerola is the colored skin surrounding the nipple.

 

[joseph49853]

BTW, I didn't even know there was a possibility of gynecomastia on finasteride, until maybe 6 months after discovering my own problem. I don't think there was even much of an awareness until around 2003/2004. From another article in the New England Journal of Medicine titled, "Male Breast Cancer During Finasteride Therapy."

"As this patient and his physician, we strongly recommend that the FDA
require that information about the possible association between male breast
cancer and Proscar be clearly stated in the manufacturer's patient
information leaflet for prescriptions and in its advertisements. Proscar has
been well established to improve quality of life in men suffering from BPH.
Patients and their physicians need to be better informed about this
potential life-threatening risk. Men who take Proscar need to be aware of
any changes in their breasts and report these changes immediately to their
physicians."

This study was written in Jan 2004, around the time of my gynecomastia discovery. Back then, people were less likely to associate finasteride with breast abnormalities. For me it took several months of searching and reading. Obviously, instances of breast cancer in men are even far more rare than gynecomastia itself. Although, anything that increases estrogen also increases the likehood of gynecomastia, or much worse breast cancer... even in men.

 

[CCS]

I hope mine is just fat. I've been doing some fat burning to find out.

I just realized though that unless I have a lot of fat to get rid of, I should just do cardio instead of fat burn. I think the cardio should burn that fat. It is more calories per hour after all, right? Not that I can do cardio and hour. That would be fat burn again.