min without finasteride? new guy need help

[capped]

I used Min erratically late 2003 and early 2004, I was unable to be consistent so I stopped for 3 months. I then started again July 20th 2004 because my lifestyle now allows me to be consistent. I Added nizoral Sep 2004.
So I am over 2 months into this regime with Min and still seem to be shedding a lot. After showering I will have 50 or so hairs fall out in the towel when drying my hair and Im sure Im loosing more down the drain etc.
My hairline is in a worse place now then it was before I started, and I am thinning all over the top which I was not really doing before.
I do have very thin small hairs in my hairline where I was hopping for regrowth, and where my hair was before shedding, but these dont seem to be growing. I cant tell if these small hairs are also present amoungst the thinning hair on the top of my head.
I am reluctant to add finasteride because I would like to give Min a chance before complicating my regime. Is this foolish? Should I be shedding still at 2 months?

 

[socks]

capped,

You obviously do not fully understand hairloss. Let me explain it to you as simply as I can:

The main known factor that causes hairloss is DHT. To form DHT your body's 5a-reductase enzyme converts free roaming testosterone into type 1 or type 2 DHT inside the hair cell follicle. The DHT then binds to the hair androgen receptor and causes it to atrophy or shrink. Eventually your hair follicle stops producing hair and you loose that follicle.

Now that is a very short and simple explanation. Now, you must understand that minoxidil does NOTHING to inhibit the 5ar enzyme nor does it have ANY effect on the androgen receptor.

All minoxidil does for the hair is:

1. Holds the hair in the growing stage (anagen) longer.
2. Thickens existing hair (usually not dramatically)
3. MAY induce recently dormant hair follicle to grow again (the longer they were dormant the less cosmetic the hair regrowth is).

Finasteride (Propecia/Proscar) on the other hand actually inhibits the 5ar enzyme from converting testosterone into DHT (In humans, the mechanism of action of Finasteride is based on its preferential inhibition of the Type II isozyme. AKA it has no effect on the Type I isozyme).

Finasteride works in 80% of men stopping or reversing hairloss due to Androgenetic Alopecia. Side-effects are reported in 2% of men who take Finasteride and many time the side-effects will resolve with continued treatment.

Any man with Androgenetic Alopecia who isnt on Finasteride is foolish. Relying on minoxidil to "save" your hair is ignorant (no offense intended).


Best thing to do if you are serious about keeping your hair is use:

1. Finasteride daily
2. Use Nizoral 2% every other day or every third day
3. **OPTIONAL** use minoxidil to enhance any regrowth


Good luck!

 

[Resultsnottypical]

finasteride FIRST

Capped:


I used min for one year before starting finasteride. I did have some regrowth and cosmetic improvement. BUT, as soon as I added finasteride, just TWO MONTHS AGO, my hair has improved 100 fold. If you are going to use Min, ONLY USE IT WHILE TAKING finasteride.

That is my advice. Think of it like this:

minoxidil pours great fertilizer on dying crops...they improve, but are continually struggling because the soil is just so shitty, below them.

finasteride comes in to the picture, pumped into the soil and improves the soil that the crops are living in...then there is no problem.

Moral of the story, you can't grow a decent crop on crappy soil.

 

[capped]

SOCKS, the reason I was considering giving min a few more months is because I am already on it, and have heard various success stories of min working alone. I know this is a backwards approach and will probably start finasteride soon.
I am wondering if using min without finasteride is actually detrimental.

RESULTNOTYPICAL, Did you shed on min and then again on finasteride? Is it a good idea to wait for the min shed to calm down before starting finasteride? When did you start seeing results from finasteride?

 

[Chujgcha]

...

 

[socks]

SOCKS, the reason I was considering giving min a few more months is because I am already on it, and have heard various success stories of min working alone. I know this is a backwards approach and will probably start finasteride soon.
I am wondering if using min without finasteride is actually detrimental.

capped,

Yes, using minoxidil without Finasteride (or some type of 5ar inhibitor and/or androgen receptor blocker) is detrimental because you're not protecting your hair from the damage DHT is causing.

With minoxidil you're only stimulating the hair to grow and grow longer but the root problem, DHT, is intact. As time goes by your minoxidil hair will continue to thin as the result of the DHT until you eventually progress to Norwood Mother Nature has in store for you.

Howdy Socks,

Would you agree with this:

As I understand it, DHT is DHT. Only the enzyme is classified as type 1 and type 2. Each enzyme can convert T into DHT, and, as you say, finasteride is better at inhibiting type II.

thanks

Howdy Chujgcha,

To my understanding, yes DHT is DHT. There are two types of enzymes that convert testosterone into DHT; Type I 5ar and Type II 5ar.

However, remember that the different types of 5ar enzymes are located in different cells in the body. In the hair follicle cells (where the hair atrophy from Androgenetic Alopecia occur) Type 2 5ar is present.

In studies done in both human and stumptailed macaques Type I 5ar specific inhibitors (such as MK386) had no noticeable effect on male pattern baldness.

Just an important side note I wanted to include

 

[ACT10Npack]

I agree with Sock. Your not going to stop your hair loss until you get on Propecia. minoxidil only give you a 3 year of slowing your hair loss.