My Story - Advice Needed. Please Read

[hairandaway]

Caucasian - Age 24, Lurker for 3 years, first-time posting.

May 2009 - Started Finasteride. 0.625mg a day. Was concerned about sides so never took the recommended amount. Got prescription from HairTransplant clinic. Doctor never mentioned sides. I asked about them and he said the only patient to complain about sides was a man in his 50's.

No noticeable sides, no loss of libido, erections, apart from some minor testicle ache (will get to this later)

Feb 2010 - Broke up with long-term high school girlfriend after 6 years. I had never been in any other relationship or had sex with anyone up until this point. No loss of Libido/ED ever in 6 years or when on finasteride.

April 2010 - Went to GP regarding testicle ache (not the Doctor who prescribed finasteride, my GP had never heard of finasteride, and subsequently wouldn't prescribe it). Said it was probably epididymitis and to get ultrasound. Pain went. Never got ultrasound.

Feb 2010 - July 2010 - Had sex with 5 women in this time. No erection/libido problems for the first three women. However, by the fourth and fifth. I would lose my erection during sex. And then the morning after I couldn't get an erection at all.

After the second time this happened, I started to panic. No Morning erections, had absolutely zero libido. No desire to get aroused/masturbate at ALL. Had a period of about a month where I though I might be asexual. Avoided women. Continued with finasteride for a week then stopped altogether.

I tried to convince myself that it was all in my head because between Feb - Aug 2010, I was getting drunk regularly 3-4 times a week and was suffering from mild depression (never took any anti-depressants though). All of this can lead to low lidibo too. However, when I was severely depressed for a long period when I was with my X, and I never had any libido/erection problems then.

Also, I was never able to ejaculate with any of my sexual encounters on the night or morning after. I tried to put this down to the fact that I was drunk and I rarely had sex with my X drunk.

Aug 2010 - After approx. 3 weeks cold turkey off finasteride. I began taking approx. 0.33 - 0.625mg. Added minoxidil to regimen too. Libido/Erections not great.

Sept 2010 - Testicle Ache came back. Got ultrasound - found out I have a 5mm cyst on the top of my right testicle. Never mentioned finasteride to Doctor. Convinced myself this is why I have pain and not finasteride.

Sept 2010 - Nov 2010 - began taking less and less of finasteride everyday, 0.25 - 0.33mg. Libido is still not good. It's more difficult to get an erection and maintain one.

However, in October, I was with a girl and I was a bit drunk and didn't even think about gettin hard and I did for about 1-2 hours. I'd think the drink made me less anxious about getting hard. (I'm trying to put a positive spin on things)

Nevertheless, as it stands today. I dread to think of my next encounter with a women incase I can't get it up. Random erections are non existent. Morning erections come now and again but are never fully hard. I have woke up in the middle of the night with full erections. So I know everything works ok but just not the way it should or the way I want it to. I can't stop thinking about my dick and if it's going to work or not.

Overall, I believe finasteride is a dangerous drug to some people. I also want to believe that the majority of this is in my head. I want to believe that those that times I couldn't get it up triggered some performance anxiety disorder in me and is not completely the result of finasteride. However, I would wholeheartedly believe I had some performance anxiety ED if I hadn't been taking finasteride. But I have and I might be one of the those to get sides.

Today - I quit finasteride cold turkey last Sunday (11/21/10). Still on minoxidil & nizoral.
I have no one to talk to. My GP knows nothing about finasteride. I know if I go to the place I got the prescription, he'll tell me it's all in my head. I'm really worried, becoming increasingly depressed and can't go a day without getting upset. I just want to be a horny young man again.

Please tell me what to do. Should I get a bloodtest? I have no baseline to compare to though. Can finasteride bring about cysts? Is this related? Should I start taking Zinc and how much and just see what happens and hope that I'll get back to normal. I really doubt I'll ever go back on finasteride. It's not worth the sides or the worry that comes with it.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[Mew]

Finasteride is documented to affect sexual function, so it's doubtful this is "in your head".

The pattern you describe has been played out countless times by other men before you. The good news is, according to Merck you should be back to normal after quitting, hopefully within a few weeks. Most likely things should resolve as 5AR2 and DHT come back online.

Then again, there are those who find things aren't quite as rosy as Merck claims and find the opposite, however we are in the minority. Odds are probably in your favor your symptoms should resolve, but ultimately its a wait and see game.

In the meantime, get bloodwork to see what the drug has been doing to your body.

Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Androstenedione
DHT
3alpha-diol G (Androstenediol glucuronide -- ("Adiol-G" for short): metabolite of DHT, measures 5AR-II activity
Estradiol (E2)
LH
FSH
SHBG
Prolactin
TSH
Vitamin D

If you continue to have longterm issues months later, there's another website dedicated to those specific problems.

 

[Ende]

Get on zinc, as soon as possible. 50 - 100 mg a day is recommended by Dr. Shippen. It works as an aromatase inhibitor, and changes the testosterone/estrogen ratio in favor of testosterone. Read some threads on this forum. We've talked a lot about it.

DO NOT wait and see what happens. Use supplements to get the estrogen level under control. You'll develop secondary hypogonadism if your DHT/estrogen ratio turns out in favor of estrogen.

Do a blood test as Mew suggest. LH, FSH, testosterone, estrogen, prolactin and SHBG are the most important ones. Add T4 if you're checking all the hormones which he proposes. You need a blood test now, to be able to track changes later.

 

[hairandaway]

Thanks Mew and Enden, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

On your advice, I'm going to start taking Zinc 50mg today. I will also look into getting blood work done. I have a feeling that you guys will know more about the results then alot of medical professionals out there. Hopefully my body will restore itself. I'm not touching finasteride again or anything that can systemically affect me.

Thanks again.

I will keep updating this thread.

 

[hairandaway]

Update - Woke up without an erection, went back to sleep to see if I would wake with one. And I did. It was 80 % hard but as soon as I woke up, touched it and I began to think about it and it went.
No spontaneous erections, zero sex drive. I'm looking at attractive women and thinking they're good looking or whatever but I don't have actual sexual thoughts about them. No sexual thoughts = no boner.

I'm taking 50mg of Zinc everyday as you mentioned Enden based on Dr.Shippen advice. I'm also taking 120mg Ginkgo Biloba and one tablet Wellman supplement which contains L-Arginine and Ginseng amoung other things which apparently are good for low libido etc.

Is this a good plan? Is there anything else I can do. Should I start doing weight training to help boost testorone?

Should I take 50mg Zinc for a few weeks as you suggest in your thread, Enden, on how to deal with finasteride side effects?

Thanks a million guys. I feel like there's no one else I can talk to. I'm getting anxiety attacks worrying if my dick and me will ever be right again. I don't want to belong to the long-time suffers on the other site.

 

[Ende]

Based on monty's result (viewtopic.php?f=46&t=60982&start=20), I suggest 100 mg zinc a day for one week, and then 50 mg a day untill you notice positive changes. He got strong morning erections after two weeks. It sounds like your prolactin level might be elevated too; no libido, and nothing is arousing.

 

[Ende]

You should deplete your prolactin level. This has no negative consequences, and it will increase your libido. 0.25 mg Dostinex twice a week will take care of it within a month.

It's avaliable through assetchemist.co.uk / hwprescriptionservice.com. State that you've recently done a blood test due to severe side effects from Propecia. The prolactin level was above the range, and you need cabergoline to lower it. You're not going to use more than 0.25 mg twice a week, and you're doing a new blood test in a couple of weeks after you've begun treatment.

 

[hairandaway]

Update

Almost two weeks off finasteride. No improvement whatsoever. The situation has gotten worse. I'm getting increasingly anxious and depressed about this situation. Which doesn't help things at all. Do things get worse before they get better. Am I having a finasteride crash?

I have absolutely no libido. I had nocturnal erections last night but no morning erection. No morning/noctural ones the night before last.

The difficult thing is that I can't remember what I was like before. I never thought about libido or morning erections. I was just horny. I wanted to masturbate. Now - there's nothing. And now that I'm thinking about it, it inevitably makes it worse.

Also feel I'm having a bit of brain fog that I read. I'm trying to be positive and telling me it's in my head. But I'm forgetting how to play songs on guitar that I knew. Forgot my house alarm code. (lived here for 16 years - always the same code)

Getting blood work next week.
Trying to be positive sides will go. Added Got Cod Liver oil, vitamin B complex, Vit D supplements to zinc and 'Wellman' supp. for gen health etc.

Any other suggestions? Specific diet? Exercise Regimen?
I don't know to do with myself. This is affecting me very badly.

 

[Ende]

Almost two weeks off finasteride. No improvement whatsoever. The situation has gotten worse.

It takes time. Your testosterone level decreases when you quit finasteride, because some of it gets converted to DHT. This burst of DHT supresses the estrogen level. The symptoms you're describing; it's hard to know what it is without a blood test. I can be zinc, which has supressed the estrogen level too much. Loss of libido, ED and brain fog are signs of low estrogen level. What about your joints? Any cracking or aching?

Pause zinc treatment, and see if it gets better within a couple of weeks.

 

[hairandaway]

No cracking or aching joints. I'll pause the zinc treatment and just stick to the RDA of zinc.

Thanks for the prompt reply Enden.

 

[cent]

Enden - just a quick request for information. 100mg of zinc seems an awful lot - the bottle I bought has tablets of 10mg each. Are there sides from taking too much zinc? And also, I'm not sure I get what the zinc is supposed to do - is it supposed to reduce the sides of propecia, or is it to have the same effect as propecia without the sides?

Thanks

 

[Ende]

Large amounts of zinc works as an aromatase inhibitor, and the side effects are the same as prescription AI's, if you supress the estrogen level too much. 100 mg is a lot. I agree. I've been using 50 mg a day myself, and find it to be effective for tuning the testosterone/estrogen ratio. When you get severe side effects from finasteride, like reduced libido and ED, you're DHT deficient, your estrogen level has increased and your testosterone level has decreased as a natural consequense - due to the body's negative feedback mechanism.

Aromatase inhibitors block enzymes which converts testosterone to estrogen, and thereby shifts the testosterone/estrogen ratio in favor of testosterone, by reducing the estrogen level, and increasing the testosterone level.

NOTE (some new information):

Severe elevated estrogen level
no libido, impotence, risk of gynecomastia. You should confirm this by a blood test.

Slightly elevated estrogen level
good libido, soft erections, may be hard to reach orgasm, nocturnal- and morning erections possible.

Too low estrogen level
reduced libido, erectile dysfunction, no nocturnal- or morning erections, cracking/aching joints*, muscle weakness, lethargy.

*I saw cracking/aching joints as a sign of too low estrogen level, which is true - regarding the body part which is affected, but serum concentration of estrogen may still be too high.