my story (more or less), along with some questions - i need help

[minoxiDjunkie]

hey there,
im an old/new guy here,
have read this forums in the past quite a bit, and than now back again to read a little, but more - to seek help.
so im gonna have a lot of questions, and im sorry in advance if they were posted in the past, but i've just spent a - 3 days in a row session of non stop reading these (and other) forums, and have'nt found the answers im looking for.

i hope im in the right forum to ask these questions because im a little confused about where to do that,
but since its a 'tell your story' forum ill start by - telling my story - . [but feel free to just skip this part because i find it useless to read when there is not much of a progress, like in here]

so im 24 now,
not sure when i was starting, but im mainly on minoxidil for about 4 years now -
with little breaks here and than (and basically started sheeding like crazy if a break was for more than a week or so),
and right now im on minoxi foam - for the morning, and a 7.5% minoxidil (i make from mixing equal amounts of 5 and 15 from minoxidilmax) in the evening.
besides that - nizoral for approx 2 times a week, on the other days its either - plain water, or a natural rosmary-nettle shampoo (or so it claims to be) - free of sls paravins and some other stuff.\
dermarolling (0.5, now waiting for the 0.3 to arrive) about 2 times a week, now planing to make it daily.
hmm besides that - from time to time i cut some aloe vera from my neighboors garden and make an hair mask basically (by blending the leaf meat, sometimes along with other stuff like honey and/or oils) which i put on at night, wear a shower cap / sock hat and wash it in the morning,
also occasionaly i rub some olive oil (before bed time or an hour or so before showering), raw egg (20 mins before shower), castor oil and more rarely - garlic oil (basically taking a garlic head, crush it with the proper tool - sorry but i dont know its name other than maybe just - garlic crusher, and than i collect all the crushed stuff - put it in a sock and squeeze out the oils),
lastly - i try to massage my head as much as i can, especialy when im feeling itchy (instead of itching which is bad for your skin), and really rarely - this finger rubbing bull**** (well, it is giving a certain blood rush to your scalp, but i can achive it with lots of other, more simple things such as just breathing )

as for the war against dht - untill now i relied on the stuff thats already in the minoxidil (azelaic acid, vitamin a, now it also has about 0.05% finasteride in it or smth like that and prehabs some other anti dht stuff), and - on the nizoral.
my shedding was none basically - as long as i was on thoes stuff, though - i havent got any kind of regrowth as well.
my hair is more or less - thin at all the top part, especially in crown part, hairline is noticably receded, and i'd rate myself i guess as a Norwood 2.5 more or less.
no pics from the past and none for now, sorry guys, but really theres nothing to show.

recently i was getting the felling that i really should go for the whole deal, bring out the super heavy artilery and never stop shooting.
this thread is called the great mess, because this is one of thoes situations that one gets too confused from too much info, so if you are getting confused reading this - im really sorry, because my head is all over everywhere now but ill try point it to the specifics.

lot of questions i have, as i said, so ill get to them -

1 - RU58841 - what is exactly the difference between the regualr (ru58841), to the mystrate (or smth like that?) - RUM ?

2 - ive read in 'hlh' forums some post from a polish dude that apperantly understand a thing or two, he makes veichles for stuff (his nick is 'ziom1990'), and he sais that - 'ru in a k&b solution as a veichle - stays stable for about 6 months' - i wanted to know - is that true ? what do you have to support this claim ? it is great news isnt it? because than you can prepare you ru in a 2-3 months batchs at a time instead of making it daily which must be a drag. so why still most of dudes i see here uses alc&pg mix as a veichle?

3 - as for now - what is the best way to go for healing ones male pattern baldness ? and i mean - the best - the very ****ing best way, because - as far as i gather - the big 3 is no longer it, ru is better than finasteride and dutasteride, and i see a lot of new names here and there that are supposdely - considered as cutting edge.

4 - ive seen here some people uses combos of - ru+dutasteride, or ru+finasteride, - what is the logic behind that ? i mean - ru alone should be great and block about 90% DHT, while the others blocks less, so - why really ?

5 - kinda in addition to 3 - what is the role of ahK (hope i got that right - means copper peptides), cb, and all the other new names i see here such as 'eqoul' and **** i dont remember the rest, but i have seen a lot of these new names, mainly under - 'cutting edge' section, so - please - if someone could explain - just a little bit about them - it would be really really appriciated.

6 - has any of you guys tried some alternatives such as - acupuncture for reducing androgen levles in the body, or some other alternative method that really made a HUGE difference to him? i've heard of a chinese herb called 'he-shou wu' or something like taht, that promises to regrow your hair.

7 - last (for now ;] ) - i've seen here some comment, though i cant really remmeber where it was, it was by either 'el_duterino', or 'hellouser', cant remember either, and it mentioned something called - (cant remember exactly as well) something like mnb (or some other 3 letters starting with 'm')-32, something jel, or gel, **** im sorry i ****ed up forgetting all of these - but anyway - this stuff is like super cutting edge, they just started experimenting it on very few people and its really almost not availbe for sale, but apprently it is reachable because 'el_dut' or 'hellouser' (the one who made the post) has got his hands on it, and - what it is is basically something you take for like 2-3 weeks, and than you stop - and you dont have to take it anymore, and it litteraly - grows all your hair back (yea i know, crazy),
so something like - 'mns-32 flutragel' - please give me some good news if you know what im talking about (el dutasteride and hello - where r u guys please come here! )


currently im considering on starting on ru, but i need some answers first, because if there is something better than i sure wanna know about it
please help

yours,
the junkie

 

[eenrak]

RU is a hassle compared to finasteride. Rubbing your head with oils will not help.
Finasteride. Dutasteride and/ru ru are last resort in case finasteride is failing you.

 

[minoxiDjunkie]

thanks but i wasnt looking for an advice or opinions about my regimen,
i was simply - as said before, and as the forum title is - 'telling my story' as far as it concerning the regimen, but -
the main reson of this thread are really the 7 questions,
thats all i want to know.
thanks.

by the way - you did meant to say that finasteride is a hassle compared to ru, right ?

 

[Vlatch]

by the way - you did meant to say that finasteride is a hassle compared to ru, right ?

There is no human study that I know of proving the effectiveness and safety of RU on humans.

Sure, there are some success stories associated with this product, and it showed great success in animal studies so it remains a possible treatment, but it's a gamble. I would use it as a last resort.

You have no way to know if it's more effective than finasteride/dutasteride or if it has less chance of giving side effects. For all you know something could get systemic and give worse possible sides than finasteride/dutasteride.
The simple fact that no study has been done on the safety of a product doesn't mean it's safe, it could be, but you can't be sure.

Right now the big 3 IS it, sorry to burst your bubble, until CB-03-01 is available on the market I guess, unless a convincing study appears out of nowhere for a new product in the next few months =\

 

[minoxiDjunkie]

first - there was a human study,
it stopped on phase 2 which is 1 stage before phase 3 which is the last stage before a drug goes to the wide market.

second - the forums are absolutley FULL of people that had AMAZING sucsess with ru !
the science says it blocks (or binds) to about 90% of the DHT, of BOTH types, while finasteride blocks only about 70% and only of the 1st type (dutasteride block also both, and blocks around 80% as far as i know),
so - here it is - more effective than finasteride/dutasteride, with no side effects.
i dont have the studies themselfs, but i read exactly these same things all around the internet, and in there - the facts actually DID came from studies, and on every person on these forums that had sucsess with ru and experience with finasteride\dutasteride - they also say that it has no side effects.

this - for me - is enough to give it a try myself, when it claims to be the best fighter against dht,
its like when youre in a war against mosqitos - you can kill them manually - but never get rid of them all (finasteride), or - you can spray a repellent, and get rid of 90% of them (ru) - do the math.

but for christ sake - can someone PLEASE answer the questions as i wrote them instead of making a mess from this thread ?

 

[zzzzz]

RU binds to the AR receptors, not to DHT

even if your 90% was right dutasteride blocks the same

there was a study with RU on human hairs in 97 I believe. It was done on mice with human hairs transplanted on them.

most of this stuff your talking about is kind of dumb. You have tried all this garbage but never tried finasteride? Why?

Just start finasteride you are making this way more complicated and difficult then it needs to be... finasteride is probably enough for you. If you want to start something strong start with dutasteride. If dutasteride doesn't work for you after a year, which is very unlikely, maybe even impossible, then you can come back and we can talk about RU....

 

[Vlatch]

first - there was a human study,
it stopped on phase 2 which is 1 stage before phase 3 which is the last stage before a drug goes to the wide market.

second - the forums are absolutley FULL of people that had AMAZING sucsess with ru !
the science says it blocks (or binds) to about 90% of the DHT, of BOTH types, while finasteride blocks only about 70% and only of the 1st type (dutasteride block also both, and blocks around 80% as far as i know)

Some human trials were completed for RU yet the results were never published, I really wonder why. Maybe it was so effective and safe they were affraid to make too much money.

Just a reminder about some numbers :
- Finasteride 1mg blocks 70% of serum DHT and 40% of scalp DHT.
- Dutasteride 0.5mg blocks 90% of serum DHT and 55% of scalp DHT.
- Dutasteride 2.5mg blocks more than 95% of serum DHT and 80% of scalp DHT.

RU58841 supposedly blocks 70% of DHT binding, which is good, yet as I said previously it's a gamble to use it and you shouldn't spit on proven treatments. Better the devil you know than the one you don't.

Sorry for making a mess of your thread.

 

[minoxiDjunkie]

ok thanks for your answers,
i hope you didnt got the feeling im being a jerk, maybe i have been a little, my thread itself is a mess,

anyways -
@zzzzz - i havent tried any of these stuff - not finasteride, not ru, not dutasteride, just different minoxis and nizoral basically.
i dont wanna start with finasteride because im actually not a starter, i've started minoxidil about 4-5 years ago, maybe more, and started receding in my hairline even before that,
i dont wanna start with finasteride because it feels to me too weak, and for my time and phase of hairloss, i feel like i need to fight the hardest i can if i dont want to have hair transplant.

@vlatch -
thanks for the numbers,
dutasteride 2.5 sounds really good,

@ all -
- what can you tell me about the side effects at this dose ?
- is that 2.5mg once a day ?
- how about even an higher dose of dutasteride ? logic says it should block close to 100%, or is it, can you elaborate ?
- how would a topical dutasteride work vs. internal ?
- was i correct when i said that dutasteride blocks BOTH types of 5ar [i wrote dht, meant 5ar] ?
- also - was i correct that ru BINDS to both types of 5ar ? can you show a study that supports the numbers ?

reason i thought straight off about ru is because anywhere i looked, that including some israely forum - people REGREW their hairline very nicely after about 9-12 month on it, and also their entire head became fuller and thicker,
basically they went from being nw2.5 to nw1.5\1, or from nw4 to nw3.
im at about nw2.5 and i do really want this kind of results, getting back my hairline and having fuller, thicker hair overall.
-do you think dutasteride at 2.5mg can achive that effect ?


thanks again for the help.

 

[Vlatch]

- what can you tell me about the side effects at this dose ?
- is that 2.5mg once a day ?
- how would a topical dutasteride work vs. internal ?
- was i correct when i said that dutasteride blocks BOTH types of 5ar [i wrote dht, meant 5ar] ?
- also - was i correct that ru BINDS to both types of 5ar ? can you show a study that supports the numbers ?

reason i thought straight off about ru is because anywhere i looked, that including some israely forum - people REGREW their hairline very nicely after about 9-12 month on it, and also their entire head became fuller and thicker,
basically they went from being nw2.5 to nw1.5\1, or from nw4 to nw3.
im at about nw2.5 and i do really want this kind of results, getting back my hairline and having fuller, thicker hair overall.
-do you think dutasteride at 2.5 can achive that effect ?


thanks again for the help.

Yes it's once a day. The rate of side effects is comparable to finasteride with a daily dosage of dutasteride 0.5mg, but sexual sides increase significantly at 2.5mg.

Topical dutasteride would work if it was absorbed systemically, which would kind of beat the purpose of using it unfortunately =\

Dutasteride inhibits 5ar1 and 5ar2 (5ar3 as well but so does finasteride), yet only DHT coming from 5ar2 has been proven to cause hair loss, DHT coming from 5ar1 has an action on sebaceous glands, maybe a little on hair loss.

RU binds to androgen receptors, not 5ar.

Dutasteride 2.5mg is slightly more effective than dutasteride 0.5mg but it's not miraculous either, finasteride and dutasteride aren't really regrowth treatments but some people get impressive results sometimes, like RU I guess (see nickypoo's thread).

The reason is, even if you were able to inhibit 100% of the DHT in your scalp, you probably wouldn't fully recover, because follicles that have been miniaturized for more than one or two years can rarely be reactivated without a growth stimulant like minoxidil (which doesn't work perfectly either =\).

The purpose is to stabilize the loss by lowering DHT to a non-balding level, and the 40% decrease in scalp DHT caused by finasteride is often enough. That's why in the ten year study conducted on finasteride 1mg, 86% of the participants had maintained or improved their condition at the end of the study.

 

[minoxiDjunkie]

Thanks for the detailed Answer

- could you elaborate further about the side effects ?

Topical dutasteride would work if it was absorbed systemically, which would kind of beat the purpose of using it unfortunately

What exactly do you mean ?


- so ru binds to 70% of the a receptors, preventing t to become dht, right ?
do u have something that supports that number ?
assuming its correct - is that means that still 30% of t will become dht ?
how much of that 30 will end up in the sculp ?


now what about this cb thing ?
what is it doing ?
how well ?
What's the sides ?

And what about copper peptides ?
Same questions as with the cb


Thanks again for the help
thanks a lot - much much appriciated

 

[zzzzz]

minoxid, I explained to you already, RU does not lower DHT levels. It binds to the receptors of DHT on the follicles, stopping the DHT from reaching the hair. It does not effect your hormone levels in any way.

Topical dutasteride and finasteride are a waste of time, you should just take normal oral finasteride/dutasteride. With topical finasteride enough gets absorbed into the bloodstream to have the exact same effect as an oral dose, so instead of making a mess with your hair every day you might as well just take a pill since it isn't any different and it's easier.

CB is a treatment that is being developed but should only be seen as something that may come out in the future don't worry about it as of the present. No one knows how well it works, or what vehicle it works with, and it is extremely expensive.

side effects are uncommon (but will be quite common with 2.5mg dose of dutasteride) and are as follows:

low libido/sex drive
mild-severe erectile disfunction
gynocemastia/b**ch tits/man tits

all sides are temporary and will stop once you discontinue the drug, except maybe gyno, but that is far rarer than the rest and usually very mild, and you will see it coming a mile away if you just keep an eye on your titties.

With finasteride it will probably take 2 weeks for sides to go away after stopping, with dutasteride it may take even up to a few months

 

[minoxiDjunkie]

thanks again for the answers.

is there any study about the sides from dutasteride will be if one'll go by steps ?
i mean - starting with 0.5 for about 2 months, if theres no sides than - after 2 months going up to 0.75,
no sides and 2-3 months later going to 1mg,
no sides and 5-6 months later going to 1.5mg,
and than maybe sticking to it or going even higher,
something like that..
is there any study who tested this thing ?
because usually when you start slow with drugs youll get zero sides...




now - about the ru -
it wont effect my hormone levels but rather prevent from dht to reach my scalp - great, isnt it ?
what are the numbers ?
i mean how much dht wont go to my scalp with ru ?


and again -
copper peptides -
what are they doing ?
how well ?
What's the sides ?


thanks again for the help -
much appriciated !
thank you !