No More Zix

[Old Baldy]

Sorry to say, to all you Zix users, vitamin b-6 (pyridoxamine) is now a drug according to the FDA.

Unbelievable but true.

http://www.naturalnews.com/025606.html

 

[hair_tomorrow]

Crap! This has been a long time coming and threats have been looming for awhile. Wish I had enough on the ball to stock up - I think I only have a few tabs left.

 

[Petchsky]

FDA does big pharma's bidding yet again!

It must be effective if the FDA banned it. Corrupt wankers :jackit:

 

[spinner2]

Wow, I just got a bottle of 100 pills yesterday.

That decision is ridiculous.

 

[Bryan]

Doesn't "Zix" use pyridoxine, not pyridoxamine?

 

[Old Baldy]

From Joe's site:

1 bottle of B-6 (pyridoxal 5-phosphate) 60 capsules

I think Bryan is right!! You guys might be ok afterall. Sorry!!

I don't think the FDA went as far as I thought? Nothing I've seen has "outlawed" pyridoxal 5-phosphate.

You'll just have to wait and see when trying to place orders in the future. But, again, it looks like Bryan is correct, you may be safe afterall!!

Good find Bryan!!

 

[Bryan]

I have a college nutrition textbook right here which says that B6 is available in foods in three different forms: pyridoxine, pyridoxal, and pyridoxamine. It says that once they are absorbed, all three forms are converted to pyridoxal phosphate.

Interestingly, it was pyridoxine which was shown to increase the ability of azelaic acid to work as a 5a-reductase inhibitor (in vitro, of course), so I find it curious that Joe specifies pyridoxal phosphate on his site as an ingredient for "Zix".

 

[Old Baldy]

I read something on these various forms of vitamin B6 Bryan but can't remember why Joe's form of that vitamin is still ok? But that's the way I remember it (i.e., that that form of B6 is ok to use).

Once again, my memory fails me.

Since all these various forms of vitamin B6 get converted to the pyridoxal 5-phosphate form, what is the big deal with pyridoxamine?

Is pyridoxamine "infringing" on big pharma's use of that substance?

 

[Bryan]

I read something on these various forms of vitamin B6 Bryan but can't remember why Joe's form of that vitamin is still ok? But that's the way I remember it (i.e., that that form of B6 is ok to use).

I suspect that even Joe doesn't have any particular reason himself why he chose pyridoxal phosphate, other than that it's generally considered a more "cool" form of the vitamin by many people. But it would still appear more logical to me to use pyridoxine, if he's trying to inhibit 5a-reductase with Zix.

BTW, pyridoxine is also more stable to heat than pyridoxal, and probably much more stable in solution.

Since all these various forms of vitamin B6 get converted to the pyridoxal 5-phosphate form, what is the big deal with pyridoxamine?

Is pyridoxamine "infringing" on big pharma's use of that substance?

God only knows what's going throught the evil mind of the FDA!

 

[Old Baldy]

Ok, thanks for the info. Bryan.

 

[CCS]

So the older B6 capsules that were on shelves up until recently --- what type were they?

 

[Bryan]

The vast majority of B6 supplements are in the form of pyridoxine. There are a few in the form of pyridoxal, but I personally never seen a pyridoxamine supplement. There must be some out there somewhere.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

Bryan is correct as ususal. Most B6 supplements are Pyridoxine Hydrochloride.

 

[CCS]

Bryan is correct as ususal. Most B6 supplements are Pyridoxine Hydrochloride.

nice.

 

[Jacob]

The vast majority of B6 supplements are in the form of pyridoxine. There are a few in the form of pyridoxal, but I personally never seen a pyridoxamine supplement. There must be some out there somewhere.

http://www.antiaging-systems.com/iassto ... amine.html

Out of stock at the moment.

Hmmmm...I thought you were a big LEF fan:
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements ... -Caps.html

 

[CCS]

Read the citation summarized below from British Journal of Dermatology, 1988 Nov;119(5):627-32.

Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid, by Stamatiadis D, Bulteau-Portois MC, Mowszowicz I., Laboratoire de Biochimie B, Hopital Necker-Enfants-Malades, Paris, France.

The effects of zinc sulphate and azelaic acid on 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin were studied using an in vitro assay with 1,2[3H]-testosterone as substrate. When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations which had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.

 

[amsch]

Read the citation summarized below from British Journal of Dermatology, 1988 Nov;119(5):627-32.

Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid, by Stamatiadis D, Bulteau-Portois MC, Mowszowicz I., Laboratoire de Biochimie B, Hopital Necker-Enfants-Malades, Paris, France.

The effects of zinc sulphate and azelaic acid on 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin were studied using an in vitro assay with 1,2[3H]-testosterone as substrate. When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations which had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.

Zinc + B6 + AA = win?

 

[CCS]

0.2-3mmol. Is that high or low?

I think finasteride has a molecular weight of about 500. Let me check. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride nope, 373g/mol. Now if 1mg is in 10 liters of blood, that is 0.001g/373 /10 = 0.00027 mmol finasteride.

So you need 10,000x the dose of azelaic acid to inhibit 5 alpha reductase as you do for finasteride, though we are talking 5ar1 for AA and 5ar2 for finasteride.

Azelaic acid has a molar mass of 188, so about half the size of finasteride. So 1mmol would be 0.188g per liter, or 12mg per 60mL. But that is how much needs to be in your scalp. The topical would have to be much stronger. That is still like 0.0188%.

 

[CCS]

Zinc + B6 + AA = win?

zinc inhibits 5 alpha reductase. I'm sure hydro chloric acid does too. I've read that zinc may have negative effects. And how much zinc to you need to do the inhibition? I would stay away from zinc.

 

[Old Baldy]

The vast majority of B6 supplements are in the form of pyridoxine. There are a few in the form of pyridoxal, but I personally never seen a pyridoxamine supplement. There must be some out there somewhere.

http://www.antiaging-systems.com/iassto ... amine.html

Out of stock at the moment.

Hmmmm...I thought you were a big LEF fan:
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements ... -Caps.html

Yes, I didn't want to say anything but LEF has been offering pyridoxamine for a while now IIRC.

You can't expect Bryan to know everything Jacob and he did say there must be some out there somewhere. Be nice!!