Off Propecia Only To Get Worse?

[Vigaku]

I've read the claim from a few that getting off Propecia in some cases causes, and I will pinpoint this, the sexual side effects (this includes gynowhat'sitcalled, breasts and whatnot) to appear and/or worsen once someone decides to quit Propecia.

I just never understood the logic behind it. Sure your hormonal levels may alter, but how exactly would it in a negative way? There's no way DHT could get any less now that the 5-alpha reductase inhibitor is out and the body is free to synthesize natural DHT, so how to the gyno traits, libido issues and ED appear AFTER the drug is stopped? Makes absolutely no sense.

I've been having some hope that quitting finasteride will at least undo some minor side effects I've had...only to read from someone that these side effects may intensify IF I QUIT the drug. Wtf indeed.

 

[messedup]

Nobody knows why it happens. Some theorize the sudden rush of DHT back into your body does something to permanently alter the endocrine system. The vast majority of men do not seem to experience the crash though. Odds are you'll be OK if you stop, and your sides should resolve over 2-8 weeks.

I wasn't so lucky. My side effects from on the drug mostly stayed the same for about 6 weeks after I quit(zero improvement), and then suddenly everything got several degrees worse. That was about 5 weeks ago, and things have continued to worsen ever since.

 

[Ende]

I think it's more likely that some crashes because there simply isn't produced enough DHT to restore the testosterone/estrogen ratio. DHT deficiency is easily gauged by the appearance of semen. It should be white. Severe deficiency makes it transparent. If that's the case, HRT with Andractim would be a part of the solution. When the body is recovered, you could wean off treatment as with corticosteroids.

 

[Vigaku]

How does DHT suddenly rush back in, and I can see how this maybe bad, but I don't see how a rush of DHT can start showing signs of DHT deficiency any greater.

I've never really noticed the importance of DHT :sobbing: back then two years ago I thought it was just some stupid f*****g androgen with no function besides promoting hair in some areas and retardedly does the opposite on the top of the head, that is if you have a certain gene.

Though I never understood it. I sat for hours thinking today why does DHT miniaturize hairs at all? If it promotes hair everywhere else, then the least it can do is leave hairs alone that have already been growing. That would include the eyebrows, and head hair, but no, it just has to screw up the top follicle hairs for no reason.

Read somewhere about the evolution of baldness bullshit that it was by sexual selection that females chose males who were bald since they seemed to be more mature and more "nurturing" than hairy men. This reasoning is flawed beyond belief, not to mention male pattern baldness clearly looks like a defect so how this could have been "prefered" is beyond me, especially when now the vast majority of men prefer having hair that not, and when the majority of females prefer the same for them. I find it hard to believe it was "different" so many years ago. It's like someone having lower but no upper teeth.

 

[Ende]

How does DHT suddenly rush back in, and I can see how this maybe bad, but I don't see how a rush of DHT can start showing signs of DHT deficiency any greater.

When you stop taking finasteride, more 5AR type 2 enzymes are available. The reason some suffers from side effects while taking finasteride, is DHT deficiency. DHT counters estrogen, and when there isn't enough DHT to counter it, estrogen is elevated. When that happens, LH - which stimulates your testicles to produce testosterone, gets supressed, and your testosterone level takes a dive too. Now, DHT is also made from testosterone, so when you free those enzymes, more T is converted to DHT in the attempt to restore the ideal testosterone/estrogen ratio. The explanation would be that the HPTA can't keep up with the testosterone production, and you get screwed.

This is just a thought.

 

[Vigaku]

When you stop taking finasteride, more 5AR type 2 enzymes are available. The reason some suffers from side effects while taking finasteride, is DHT deficiency. DHT counters estrogen, and when there isn't enough DHT to counter it, estrogen is elevated. When that happens, LH - which stimulates your testicles to produce testosterone, gets supressed, and your testosterone level takes a dive too. Now, DHT is also made from testosterone, so when you free those enzymes, more T is converted to DHT in the attempt to restore the ideal testosterone/estrogen ratio. The explanation would be that the HPTA can't keep up with the testosterone production, and you get screwed.

This is just a thought.

I know but this doesn't explain how things get WORSE if someone decided to quit.

The estrogen level may have risen during the regimen, and thus somewhat inhibit testosterone production, but the testosterone is still there and it will be converted to DHT.

So hypothetically the sexual side effects should not worsen.

 

[Ende]

Yes, it does. We are not talking about slight supression here. They don't get worse immediately after quitting. They usually get better before they get worse.

 

[Vigaku]

If you meant one'd get worse after getting better, in that he doesn't necessarily get worse than he would be if he was still on the drug I can understand that.

If you mean something along the lines of he's better off staying on the drug so as not to further lower his DHT then I don't see the reason even with the explanations you gave.

 

[messedup]

I think it's more likely that some crashes because there simply isn't produced enough DHT to restore the testosterone/estrogen ratio. DHT deficiency is easily gauged by the appearance of semen. It should be white. Severe deficiency makes it transparent. If that's the case, HRT with Andractim would be a part of the solution. When the body is recovered, you could wean off treatment as with corticosteroids.

My semen is solid yellow now, and has been since I quit.

 

[Vigaku]

Geez yellow?

 

[Nene]

I think it's more likely that some crashes because there simply isn't produced enough DHT to restore the testosterone/estrogen ratio. DHT deficiency is easily gauged by the appearance of semen. It should be white. Severe deficiency makes it transparent. If that's the case, HRT with Andractim would be a part of the solution. When the body is recovered, you could wean off treatment as with corticosteroids.

My semen is solid yellow now, and has been since I quit.

uke: See a doctor, semen should never be yellow. That would be piss.

 

[Vigaku]

Despite Merck's apparent cowering behind walls I'm really starting to see what finasteride can do to people. Geez I'm reading posts on a forum from 06 summing up the things I'm learning here. I never knew any of it to be honest.

Was going to question once again how does stopping finasteride, make you, at one point in the future, WORSE than while ON the drug?

When someone said, you get off finasteride, you get better, then you get worse, I believed it was acceptable, but when it seemed someone was saying in some cases, one is better off CONTINUING than STOPPING finasteride (apart from taking other hormonal drugs at the same time of course) I couldn't accept it. Basically it seems what's trying to be said is less DHT will result as a result of quitting the drug. How contrary to the claims of professional doctors and Merck (hey, not that they're always right, I just haven't read a good enough explanation how it occurs).

I guess what someone means is that while on finasteride, the body upregulates (I guess this is the "majority" of men?) Then again, if the body upregulates then how is hair loss stopped exactly when DHT is what's being upregulated...anyway....

I can understand the body getting worse, if it decided to produce less DHT (refuse to upregulate because of finasteride) causing it to really slack off, making less DHT concentrations in the body.

This may be somewhat the case. Obviously, I don't have this whole thing understood. I think it's a whole chapter in biochemistry.

 

[messedup]

I think it's more likely that some crashes because there simply isn't produced enough DHT to restore the testosterone/estrogen ratio. DHT deficiency is easily gauged by the appearance of semen. It should be white. Severe deficiency makes it transparent. If that's the case, HRT with Andractim would be a part of the solution. When the body is recovered, you could wean off treatment as with corticosteroids.

My semen is solid yellow now, and has been since I quit.

uke: See a doctor, semen should never be yellow. That would be piss.

Several guys on propeciahelp have reported the same thing. It's a common sign of a diseased prostate. I've seen a urologist and mentioned it to him, and it doesn't seem to strike a chord.